The BREXIT SCAM 12 months on

[Thevalefan]

THE process was we voted OUT and the next day we invoke the divorce proceedings which by now we should be almost out the door NOT still faffing about . The only reason the whole thing isn't scrapped is the powers that be don't want to insight a revolution

 

This is why Stoke on Trent has one of the lowest levels of academic achievement within the UK and was coincidently the highest Brexit voting area in the UK.

 

Undoubtedly some correlation there. As this post proves.

[Thevalefan]

Anyone who believes Brexit can make us even more successful than we have been inside the EU and the single market, can I ask - why?

 

There has been no real studies publicised in the mass numb-skull Sun and Daily Mail papers telling the masses of the implications of leaving... That's because the implications of leaving a market that offers the UK £20bn in economic value per year... There is nothing positive to report.

 

Brexit has been turned into UK vs EU by the right wing media sensationalisation of everything.

 

To leave the Single Market and look to other countries to trade with is economic suicide.

 

Will the Torys invest in infrastructure and industry to revitalise the economy? After all, they've asset striped and sold off our institutions of old. They won't help. They've never thought of doing anything for Stoke on Trent.

 

The only funding I can see in Stoke has come from the EU around the Middleport area, assisted with the Prices Trust.

 

Are you going to pay more for your products that are travelling further to get to your hands? Are you going to pay more for British made goods? Or are you going to go without?

 

Are you happy to trade with the Philippines, Indians, BRIC nations who allow rape, pillage,murder and corruption in their countries or should we trade with countries under the same standards as our own?

 

Norwegians per person (relative to population size) spend more than we do... Or around the same... For their EU benefits and they have higher levels of immigration (particularly refugees) compared with us. Their model is far far from perfect. Like most.

 

Poland have outright refused refugees and mass immigration to the EU in the best way possible. Rather than leave, what in reality is an amazing concept, we need to stand up collectively as Europeans to the non-democratic political elite within Brussels

 

You'll find most Europeans agree the EU has become undemocratic but it's positives outweigh it's limitations especially for economies

[Thevalefan]

What Brexit as a political process did was unique. It engaged everybody and split them down the middle, Yes or No, In Or Out.

 

It also allowed people to make flip a coin decisions because they didn't really know what they were voting for (Thats not to disparage anyone, thats the truth), it also gave a lot of people who read newspapers, watch TV news, listen to talk radio stations that opportunity to vote on something that has been prevalent in the press for 25 years and more but something that they never thought they had a voice for or with, when MEP elections take place they often took place at the same time as council elections, and who the hell votes in those? Nobody, so nobody voted for their MEP in any sort of great number.

 

What this left us with was several groups of people who didn't fully understand what it was they were doing when they went into the ballot booth. Working class areas like Sunderland heavily voted to leave, not realising a lot of jobs depended on an EU funded car plant. Cornwall voted heavily to leave not realising that most of their tourist infrastructure was paid for by the EU, steel working areas of South Wales did the same. They didn't realise that there jobs depended on being in the EU to some degree, Nissan up there in Sunderland have done a deal with the Government, but Nissan are Japanese you say, yeah, 50% owned by Renault Or Peugeot (I forget which one).

 

Voting remain was the safe hobsons choice thing that should have happened if people had been bothered to engage into European Politics for the last 2-3 decades, but they didn't they just let Newspapers, TV, and Radio inform them, a lot of people let someone tell them to jump off a cliff, and they only went and bloody did it.

 

Totally agree.

 

If the Government came out and said

 

"We will do X Y & Z and the result will be ----" then fair enough their is a platform to vote upon, but unfactual information has been spread (Such as the big red bus and no more immigration) that's influenced people's opinion... Basically brainwashing propaganda... To think we can survive.

 

The top richest 100 in the UK's wealth increased just over £100bn collectively in the year after the Brexit vote. Says all you need to know really.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Anyone who believes Brexit can make us even more successful than we have been inside the EU and the single market, can I ask - why?

 

There has been no real studies publicised in the mass numb-skull Sun and Daily Mail papers telling the masses of the implications of leaving... That's because the implications of leaving a market that offers the UK £20bn in economic value per year... There is nothing positive to report.

 

Brexit has been turned into UK vs EU by the right wing media sensationalisation of everything.

 

To leave the Single Market and look to other countries to trade with is economic suicide.

 

Will the Torys invest in infrastructure and industry to revitalise the economy? After all, they've asset striped and sold off our institutions of old. They won't help. They've never thought of doing anything for Stoke on Trent.

 

The only funding I can see in Stoke has come from the EU around the Middleport area, assisted with the Prices Trust.

 

Are you going to pay more for your products that are travelling further to get to your hands? Are you going to pay more for British made goods? Or are you going to go without?

 

Are you happy to trade with the Philippines, Indians, BRIC nations who allow rape, pillage,murder and corruption in their countries or should we trade with countries under the same standards as our own?

 

Norwegians per person (relative to population size) spend more than we do... Or around the same... For their EU benefits and they have higher levels of immigration (particularly refugees) compared with us. Their model is far far from perfect. Like most.

 

Poland have outright refused refugees and mass immigration to the EU in the best way possible. Rather than leave, what in reality is an amazing concept, we need to stand up collectively as Europeans to the non-democratic political elite within Brussels

 

You'll find most Europeans agree the EU has become undemocratic but it's positives outweigh it's limitations especially for economies

 

Agree with most of that and many of the points you raise are reasons I voted remain but the campaign was lost and we've voted out and are on our way out. No point in making the argument not to leave any more so best to unite and focus on making the best of what has been decided. More division will do us no good.

[Thevalefan]

Agree mate.

 

Problem is nobody knows what's going on do they, no one has any idea of the real risks and implications. There is no brexit success criteria and no failure criteria. Just a "no Deal is better than a bad deal" nonsense that's been said cannot be allowed to happen. All that is for certain is outside the single market we as consumers will pick up the cost.

 

If someone give a logical way for us to get on with it then fair enough, but right now I'm going to look at my options outside of a country where we're subjects to the Crown operating a fudel system.

[Bycarsbill]

I would assume that the Labour party conference will determine the way forward for the next election and policy on the relationship with Europe, stance to be taken in the event of no-deal etc. Until then his hands are tied and he is unable to perform the acrobatics which is the advanced form of multiple u-turns now in vogue elsewhere.

 

Their 'supposed' policy was included in the Labour election manifesto--to withdraw from the single market and leave the customs' union. Unfortunately a large chunk of the Labour PLP don't agree with this part of the manifesto--hence the number who voted against 'official' Labour policy last night.

 

This is just one example of how difficult it would be for Corbyn to enact all of his election manifesto promises. If they can't get together on Brexit--probably the most important challenge facing the country right now--how are they going to deliver on all the other fantasy policy promises in the manifesto that lured so many people to vote for Labour?

 

As Tspiras in Greece and Trump in America have already found out--it's all too easy to make bribes--oops, sorry--promises in an election campaign. It's an all together different matter when it comes to delivering them!

[CupidStunt]

Done in the best possible taste Cupid.😉

 

I'm not here to protect your feelings, snowflake.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Agree mate.

 

Problem is nobody knows what's going on do they, no one has any idea of the real risks and implications. There is no brexit success criteria and no failure criteria. Just a "no Deal is better than a bad deal" nonsense that's been said cannot be allowed to happen. All that is for certain is outside the single market we as consumers will pick up the cost.

 

Agreed except the 'cannot be allowed to happen' bit...by voting to leave we have voted to allow that to happen if we can't get a deal...there was no "Do you want us to leave the EU if we can negotiate a good deal with them" on the voting slip.

 

If someone give a logical way for us to get on with it then fair enough, but right now I'm going to look at my options outside of a country where we're subjects to the Crown operating a fudel system.

 

The logical way is to try to agree an end state (whatever that may be) and work thru the obstacles until a point is reached where the parties involved say "Right that's the deal does the UK accept it." If we don't accept it or we get to the end of the timeline with no deal in place then we leave with no deal or extend the timeline maybe. Few will want us to leave with no deal in place and I reckon it will be disastrous for the UK.

 

It's telling that the EU didn't have anything in place along the lines of "if you wish to leave the EU you can choose the following 'packages' to be the basis of your future relationship with the EU"..which would include no deal, membership of this but not that and so on and the leaver could choose which they wanted and then negotiate to that end state. They just never expected it to happen and/or wanted to make it as daunting as possible to deter potential leavers.

 

I'm struggling with why people are still arguing over the rights and wrongs of leaving the EU...that horse has bolted.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Done in the best possible taste Cupid.

 

 

I met Mr. Everett once..much smaller in real life than he looked on TV

[CupidStunt]

Their 'supposed' policy was included in the Labour election manifesto--to withdraw from the single market and leave the customs' union. Unfortunately a large chunk of the Labour PLP don't agree with this part of the manifesto--hence the number who voted against 'official' Labour policy last night.

 

This is just one example of how difficult it would be for Corbyn to enact all of his election manifesto promises. If they can't get together on Brexit--probably the most important challenge facing the country right now--how are they going to deliver on all the other fantasy policy promises in the manifesto that lured so many people to vote for Labour?

 

As Tspiras in Greece and Trump in America have already found out--it's all too easy to make bribes--oops, sorry--promises in an election campaign. It's an all together different matter when it comes to delivering them!

 

Can you let me know what page of the Labour manifesto is says they are in favour of leaving the Customs Union and it's something they'd do? Oh yeah, they never put that in their manifesto.

 

If you link this link and go down as far as the third paragraph (http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit) you'll see what was actually included in the manifesto.

 

Who'd have thought a claim such as that would be so easy to disprove just by a simple Google Search.

 

The basic thing that Labour did was not to throw away the Leave voters, the Torys have all but thrown away Remainers. Labour made broad non-commital statements on Brexit to ensure they captured as many people as possible and because nobody, absolutely nobody, knows how Brexit will end up. Great tactical game.

 

Just so you know, this Tory government have broken more Manifesto promises than any other in the history of represntitive democracy in the U.K. We're only 2 weeks into this Government by the way.

[For Us All]

I met Mr. Everett once..much smaller in real life than he looked on TV

 

Mr.Angry Of Mayfair was my particular favourite.

 

[JOHNNYAITCH]

 

Just so you know, this Tory government have broken more Manifesto promises than any other in the history of represntitive democracy in the U.K. We're only 2 weeks into this Government by the way.

 

Not saying they haven't but what's the source for that?

[Bycarsbill]

Can you let me know what page of the Labour manifesto is says they are in favour of leaving the Customs Union and it's something they'd do? Oh yeah, they never put that in their manifesto.

 

If you link this link and go down as far as the third paragraph (http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit) you'll see what was actually included in the manifesto.

 

Who'd have thought a claim such as that would be so easy to disprove just by a simple Google Search.

 

The basic thing that Labour did was not to throw away the Leave voters, the Torys have all but thrown away Remainers. Labour made broad non-commital statements on Brexit to ensure they captured as many people as possible and because nobody, absolutely nobody, knows how Brexit will end up. Great tactical game.

 

Just so you know, this Tory government have broken more Manifesto promises than any other in the history of represntitive democracy in the U.K. We're only 2 weeks into this Government by the way.

 

If it isn't official Labour policy to leave the single market and customs' union, then can you please explain why Jeremy Corbyn sacked 3 of his front benchers yesterday (and a fourth resigned) because they all voted against the Labour whip, to stay in the single market and customs' union?

 

Do you not understand that Chukka Ummuna's amendment yesterday was totally opposite to Labour's stated policy and pi**ed off his leader completely--hence the (for once) decisive action by Corbyn to make the sackings! My real point (which you appear to have missed) is that Labour is even more divided on Brexit tactics than the Tories and it's not surprising with all the flipping and flopping during the election and since, that there is a lack of clarity (surprise, surprise!) on what Labour really stands for.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Labour made broad non-commital statements on Brexit

 

That's what we want..a decisive policy from a committed principled leader....hiding their true views more like and willing to say anything to get into office. And they failed.

[Bycarsbill]

That's what we want..a decisive policy from a committed principled leader....hiding their true views more like and willing to say anything to get into office. And they failed.

 

That's absolutely spot-on. That's why in an earlier post I have made the point that anyone can make political promises, carrying them out is a whole different ball game as Labour (and the voters they dupe) would find out if they did get into office. How many American voters are already starting to be disillusioned with Trump's election promises that clearly he's having to set aside or at best water down? It would be exactly the same with Corbyn and Mc Donnell's wildly fantastical economic bribes--sorry--promises!