What ever happens

[mr.hobblesworth]

Because Page certainly didn't!

 

And your point is?

[LancyTony]

And your point is?

 

My point? I was just responding to your original post:

 

"I don't see that Brown is particularly better than Page was. Don't want to have a downer on Brown, particularly after today's result, but I think we should have been doing better since he took over and I also think we could get better. Will Brown give us the scintillating football that many on here demand?"

 

Not sure who you would want to manage us, bearing in mind that Nigel Adkins / Gary Rowett almost certainly won't be coming down here? If we're being honest - and there are those to whom that doesn't come naturally - we did better under Bruno (27 pts from 23 games)and played decent football at times, and he only seemed to lose the plot when we got injuries, and started playing players out of position and lost the balance of the team. Plus he shared a Page-like determination to play some players, no matter how baldly they did! Not supporting Bruno - I think he did the right thing, and I think Smurf did the right thing making MB caretaker manager. I think he's shown enough to be given the job for next season - let him get a full pre-season in and fitness levels up (there seemed to be an issue with that, for some players?) and a chance to swap and change the squad to his design, and then judge him. Just hoping for some continuity. Personally, I'd hoped that Paul Bodin would still have been here when Bruno went, and, although I like the coaches MB has brought in, I think we've most missed our performance coach of last year!

[mr.hobblesworth]

My point, I guess, is that I see Brown as a similar type of manager to Page. I liked and rated Page but it felt like the majority on here didn't (despite the great home form), particularly due to a perceived 'safety first' approach, an approach that I think Brown shares. They seem to have similar foibles and neither seem to be the most adventurous of managers.

 

Plus he shared a Page-like determination to play some players, no matter how baldly they did!

 

As does Brown! His ostracisation of some players and public criticism of others is arguably worse than Page and Bruno's favouring of certain players.

 

I find it quite strange that people think that we should keep Brown if he takes us down. Whilst I agree that he didn't inherit the most amazing squad, I believe that there's enough quality in there - there certainly would have been if he'd got quality in during the transfer window - for us to have done better in the last 2 1/2 months, a period during which he's actually taken us down the league. A brilliant result today and hopefully he's managed to get the team playing the way he wants and the results will follow, but if we do go down (and I obviously hope we don't) he must shoulder a large part of the blame and to reward him with a new contract would strike me as utterly bizarre. I should add that I hope that Brown keeps us up and becomes our permanent manager.

[davidatpreston]

This question is impossible to answer at the current time in a rational and sensible way, because the situation is far more complex than almost any of the posts in this thread have acknowledged.

 

My humble opinion, for what it is worth is that the following has to be taken into account - (in no order of importance or otherwise, but all count)-

 

1. Brown should not be compared with Page. They took over in vastly different circumstances and inherited massively different squads. They started their roles at different times of the season, and most importantly the fans morale and viewpoint differed. Very few, (2 or 3 ?), of the players in the regular starting squad Page had available with are still here under Brown.

 

2. Even more so, Brown should not and cannot be compared with Bruno. Bruno started with a virtually clean sheet and signed much of his own squad.

 

Ironically though, he profited from a massive boost from a very small number of players he did not sign from outside the UK - notably Alnwick, Foley, Grant, Streete and Smith, plus the loan of hotshot scorer Alex Jones - that carried him to temporary dizzy heights.

 

The situation when Brown took over was theat Alnwick and Grant were gone, Jones was not signed and gone and for a while Foley was injured and then Streete as well as a number of Bruno's signings.

 

3. Nothing should be decided on Brown's future on the basis of whether we go up or down. We could have some luck, scrape a couple of wins and stay up with, say 46 points by the skin of our teeth but playing badly, and not looking like improving.

 

Alternatively, we could continue to improve and get 52 or 53 points and actualy beat Bolton, Sheffield United or Fleetwood but others results see us relegated despite playing improved football and looking like a really good team was coming together.

 

The actual outcome of the season will be somewhere between the two in all likelihood, but my point is that the progress, team building, morale and momentum must be considered, not just what division we might be in.

 

4. We must also consider - and make an early decision - about what budget is available for next season, and if MB is not going to be manager, we need a new manager in place early so that we are not scrambling around for players and negotiating contracts in late JUly.

 

5. It is not just a case of 'do we keep Brown' - it is a question of 'Is there anyone better'. It is clear now that Smurf got rid of Page without knowing who would replace him and this was not a good idea.

 

Please, please don't do this again - any new potential manager must not only be lined up, but be briefed on Smurfs plans for the club (Yes, I know - don't say it!) and be fully aware of what funds are available, who he is going to be reporting to, and the plans for the long-term future of the club.

 

Any other manager than Brown must be happy to either work with Brown, or Smurf must be prepared to let him bring his own people in.

 

The way loans are to be handled, and plans for what will happen if Vale need new players must also be spelt out in detail before any appointment is agreed.

 

6. If Brown does get the job, he must know what funds he will have availble and not be 'drip-fed' the way Page was.

 

He must also be trusted to sign and dismiss players and given a full free rein as manager, and be kept informed and aware of plans off the playing field that may affect the club, including ownership.

 

-------------------------------------

 

For all the above reasons, I would say that until Brown has something like a half-reasonable squad to make team selections, formations and tactics for, it is just far too early to make decisions, or even to try and influence them.

 

The man has a difficult and exacting task in trying to juggle resources to get a team on the field that can gain points under tremendous pressure - would it not be better to let him get on with it, and think of the present and the next few games rather than the longer term, at least until Easter or so ?

[LancyTony]

...I see Brown as a similar type of manager to Page. I liked and rated Page but it felt like the majority on here didn't (despite the great home form), particularly due to a perceived 'safety first' approach, an approach that I think Brown shares...

 

I respect your opinion, but I don't really see MB as a "safety-first" type of manager, especially now he's using our younger players - which RP rarely did; and the loanees - who are better quality than you seem to give them credit for - and which RP was notorious for not playing. Also, RP's football was often dreary and turgid, which I don't think you can level at MB?

[mr.hobblesworth]

Granted re the young players (although it was Page who gave Dan Turner his debut) but when you say "RP's football was often dreary and turgid, which I don't think you can level at MB" I think it's very selective for both managers. I don't really want to talk about Page anymore, this thread's not about him and it just gives fuel to witless dckheads like that bloke up thread. I only mentioned him as it felt like some who were happy to see the back of Page were basically (IMO) asking for a tainted version of the same. Let's hope this discussion is immaterial and Brown is managing us in League One next season.

[LancyTony]

... Let's hope this discussion is immaterial and Brown is managing us in League One next season.

 

Agreed - I have, a couple of times - posted I think we will finish comfortably mid-table. With this win under our belt, and players still to come back / get fitter I think our confidence will start to increase and performances / results get better.

[RayWalkers40yarder]

as ive already stated its far too soon to be asking him to take the reins as manager. we need an old head in with brown as assistant for 3-4 years first. my position has not changed. its just the cheaper option right now

[Tosh]

I think he's done very well so far in the circumstances and when he gets the chance to bring in better players I'm confident he is the sort of manager this league and a club like ours need in working within our means and with a difficult chairman. I don't think it was mainly his fault that the transfer window wasn't a success when his targets didn't come off.

From what I've seen he's getting the best out of what he's got and playing a style that's more suited to the English third tier.

It's going to be reviewed at the end of the season I suspect but as things stand I'd probably be disappointed if he doesn't get the job.

[old sage]

How can we be critical of a bloke that has walked into a club that really was a shambles. He has brought in experienced coaches who will get hopefully get the best out of the squad that he was lumbered with.

Both Eagles and Pugh look like good recruitments as does Guy and Shodipo who scared the life out of Swindon's full back until he tired late on.

 

My only criticism of Brownie is the way he appears to be pushing some of the foreign legion out but I don't know whether they really want to be here and play for the Club and perhaps he realises this fact.

 

If he can keep us up he deserves great credit because he wasn't helped much by the Club's owner who seemed keener on 'trousering' the cash that the club received for two of our better players .

[werstayinup]

If he keeps us up considering the injuries he has had to contend with plus selling two of our better experienced players on deadline day then he will deserve a knighthood never mind the managers job.

 

He has surrounded himself with good footballing people in Kelly,Morgan,Kirkland and Wrack and imo after what is it 12 games and still caretaker he deserves to know where he stands for next season.

[Valiant in Brum]

Think Bruno would be to blame.

 

We need experience not Brown

[Valiant in Brum]

If he keeps us up considering the injuries he has had to contend with plus selling two of our better experienced players on deadline day then he will deserve a knighthood never mind the managers job.

 

He has surrounded himself with good footballing people in Kelly,Morgan,Kirkland and Wrack and imo after what is it 12 games and still caretaker he deserves to know where he stands for next season.

 

No, no managers job even if we stay up.

[werstayinup]

I'm 50/50 on this, although performances have improved under Brown, until today we hadn't won. I won't be surprised if he gets the job and think with a pre season and the chance to get rid of some of the deadwood and bring his own players in he might just turn the fortunes of this club around, but me personally would prefer to get a more experienced manager in.

 

We had won before today to be fair to Brown,he has 2 wins 5 draws and 5 defeats and imo at first i would also have liked an experienced manager in BUT that doesn't always work,look at Slade and Wilson for starters.

[werstayinup]

Is Brown the manager to bring attractive free-flowing football back to Vale Park? That's what the fans want, isn't it?

 

Being honest i have enjoyed the football a lot more under him even when we have lost