Time for Norman Smurthwaite to put a genuine price tag on the club and go

[Family Stand Terrier]

please explain how you would increase the income without spending and creating debt?

I'm not putting in a bid in, so it's not my responsibility to answer those questions. However, given that others clubs manage it on less gates than us, it's something we should strive for.

 

Emulating the bradford model of getting more fans in the ground would be a start. Then ensure the products on offer are good enough and stocked well enough to increase match day revenue.

 

Then there's the media. Not banning the Sentinel would be a good idea. Employ a marketing team with clear targeting. Forge good links with local sponsors.

 

These are just the basics. Maybe ask a potential buyer that has grown a successful customer facing business what their plans would be? Who am I? I can't even afford a flagpole apparently.

 

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[Essex Vale]

please explain how you would increase the income without spending and creating debt?

 

I have previously posted that the administrators were running the club at break even whilst at the same time we were heading for promotion. Since then our Chairman has spent almost £4Million to move us backwards. Firstly we need to reduce needless pointless expenditure on players to cover the total folly of decisions made and also the rest of the money wasted by many of the Chairman's poor decisions.

 

In terms of adding to resources, look at the model of AFC Wimbledon, who are run by volunteers, and run very well. To set up that infrastructure requires the goodwill of supporters towards the Chairman. Our current Chairman has lost that battle (rightly or wrongly) so a new owner would be more likely to develop a detailed volunteer infrastructure. However a good new regime could add significant resources at little cost with a realistic volunteer database. Even from my distance of 200 miles away I could add expertise and do some actual marketing work and would be happy to do so. There will be many others like me. I would not do it for our current Chairman because.....well we all know the reasons why.

 

The Chairman may not want to walk away with a £2M loss but the alternative is that he continues the very high level of subsidy with little prospect of getting his money back and thereby increasing his losses. It is unsustainable to incur the losses he is doing with no end date. Sometimes in business you have to limit your losses to prevent catastrophe, our Chairman needs to assess the risks. He runs the risk of losing a lot more than £2M if he cannot turn the tide around and he can best come out of this with a loss of £2M and avoid a loss of a lot more. Every one of the Dragons in the den have lost money on some projects. Our Chairman seems to think he is such a super smart business man that he is exempt from that experience.

 

There is no sustainable goodwill towards him. No one wants a great Port Vale chairman more than me. However he has to be judged on the quality of his decisions and the strength of his communication. His track record in those areas is poor as Chairman. He has alienated the huge number of his core customers. If he was an executive he would have been sacked from any decent business a very long time ago for the reputational harm caused to his key customer base.

 

A business model needs to be produced that will demonstrate how the customer base will grow in the future. This means a determined attempt to capture youngsters and that can best be done by free tickets and other inducements to get them into the ground with their parents. An investment in that type of scheme rather than buying let another "Carlos kick a ball" (as described by Alan Sugar) would be a step in the right direction. More work needs to be done at generating off field income and that means building up strong relationships with local businesses. Our supporters work locally, some of them in influential jobs, would they recommend their employer engaged withe PV under the current regime? I would not that is for sure and I doubt others will do.

 

There is much that can be done. It may require a realistic assessment of us finding our true level. I would rather watch Port Vale in the national league than not watch them at all.

 

These are crucial times and we need someone with imagination, initiative, energy, passion to take the supporters along on the journey.

[Andyregs]

I think we must be the only business where being saddled with debt has increased the businesses value.

[Bert Llewellyn]

Seriously?Would you write off 3.7m because someone doesn't like you

and shouts it out loud.What will happen,will happen.He's aknowledged his **** ups.Hopefully there won't be any more.But it makes no sense for you to carry on this crusade when the outcome is something you can do very little about.Get over your spat FST,it ain't worth the grief you are giving yourself.

 

In my opinion a daft post. No he isn't going to write off the debt (so you do agree that he hasn't put money into the club but loaned it) the point is because he is completely out of his depth in this role that debt will continue to grow and grow as a result of his daft decisions. So the inevitable outcome is that he will continue to run up growing debts and make the price of buying the club totally unrealistic.

 

Whichever way you look at it, we are between a rock and a hard place. He appears to be so stubborn that he will continue to drag down both the value and reputation of club.

 

In my opinion of course

[Family Stand Terrier]

I have previously posted that the administrators were running the club at break even whilst at the same time we were heading for promotion. Since then our Chairman has spent almost £4Million to move us backwards. Firstly we need to reduce needless pointless expenditure on players to cover the total folly of decisions made and also the rest of the money wasted by many of the Chairman's poor decisions.

 

In terms of adding to resources, look at the model of AFC Wimbledon, who are run by volunteers, and run very well. To set up that infrastructure requires the goodwill of supporters towards the Chairman. Our current Chairman has lost that battle (rightly or wrongly) so a new owner would be more likely to develop a detailed volunteer infrastructure. However a good new regime could add significant resources at little cost with a realistic volunteer database. Even from my distance of 200 miles away I could add expertise and do some actual marketing work and would be happy to do so. There will be many others like me. I would not do it for our current Chairman because.....well we all know the reasons why.

 

The Chairman may not want to walk away with a £2M loss but the alternative is that he continues the very high level of subsidy with little prospect of getting his money back and thereby increasing his losses. It is unsustainable to incur the losses he is doing with no end date. Sometimes in business you have to limit your losses to prevent catastrophe, our Chairman needs to assess the risks. He runs the risk of losing a lot more than £2M if he cannot turn the tide around and he can best come out of this with a loss of £2M and avoid a loss of a lot more. Every one of the Dragons in the den have lost money on some projects. Our Chairman seems to think he is such a super smart business man that he is exempt from that experience.

 

There is no sustainable goodwill towards him. No one wants a great Port Vale chairman more than me. However he has to be judged on the quality of his decisions and the strength of his communication. His track record in those areas is poor as Chairman. He has alienated the huge number of his core customers. If he was an executive he would have been sacked from any decent business a very long time ago for the reputational harm caused to his key customer base.

 

A business model needs to be produced that will demonstrate how the customer base will grow in the future. This means a determined attempt to capture youngsters and that can best be done by free tickets and other inducements to get them into the ground with their parents. An investment in that type of scheme rather than buying let another "Carlos kick a ball" (as described by Alan Sugar) would be a step in the right direction. More work needs to be done at generating off field income and that means building up strong relationships with local businesses. Our supporters work locally, some of them in influential jobs, would they recommend their employer engaged withe PV under the current regime? I would not that is for sure and I doubt others will do.

 

There is much that can be done. It may require a realistic assessment of us finding our true level. I would rather watch Port Vale in the national league than not watch them at all.

 

These are crucial times and we need someone with imagination, initiative, energy, passion to take the supporters along on the journey.

Yeah, what he said.

 

Sent from my D6603 using the onevalefan mobile app

[Timothius]

OVF never ceases to amaze me almost as much as the Norwegian hedge fund valuations. Realistically does anyone really think that NS is going to walk away from PVFC with a 2 million quid loss? Whilst everyone is calling on him to do this that and the other if I was him I wouldnt either. After all he owns the club and the ground and whilst its all very nice we talk about the love of the club, love of the club isnt worth a penny in the real world.

 

He stands to lose 2 million pounds regardless of what happens, realistically if he stops putting money into the club and calls in his loans he could actually put it into administration and in turn cut how much he is putting in to cover cost on a monthly basis. Or he could gamble that if he keeps rolling the dice for a few more seasons we might drop lucky with a player sale, playoff spot/ promotion to league 1 again or championship or investor willing to pay him a million less than what he says he wants. (halving his loss of 2 million).

 

Rather than ask a businessman to lose 2million quid fans would be more effective genuinely working with him to find a buyer and find out his valuations of the club and its assets. (however the later may put him at a negotiating disadvantage as bidders know what he personally values things at and might not launch an inflated offer)

 

Where have you had £2million from? Is it your favourite number?

[MBE]

At the end of the day it's like selling anything else, it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

Looking at this from a negotiation point of view there is no way I would right off any money if I was NS, however he does have several levers to play with. He could drop the fee to rock bottom with a clause to rent VP for a set period to recover his "loans" and or insist on the sale of Smith and have a % if not all of the proceeds from the sale.

This way I would have all bases covered to get my investment back and would encourage more buyers who can come in without having to raise a large amount of capital to buy the club and ground.

 

 

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[Mario]

In my opinion a daft post. No he isn't going to write off the debt (so you do agree that he hasn't put money into the club but loaned it) the point is because he is completely out of his depth in this role that debt will continue to grow and grow as a result of his daft decisions. So the inevitable outcome is that he will continue to run up growing debts and make the price of buying the club totally unrealistic.

 

Whichever way you look at it, we are between a rock and a hard place. He appears to be so stubborn that he will continue to drag down both the value and reputation of club.

 

In my opinion of course

 

And mine.

[Timothius]

The thing that the majority of fans are having issues with in my opinion is being civil. It is in both NS and the fans interests for NS to leave PVFC, however a lot of fans are spending most of their time trying to prove NS is lying or may be lying rather than just getting on for the sake of what they say they care about. For some its become a personal crusade to make NS look bad (rightly or wrongly and not very difficult at times)The who har about the email from NS being leaked turned into people putting time lines of when they personally got it and claiming that they got the email after the sentinel ran the story, only to then say some got it before and some didnt only muddys the waters and further breaks the relationship (both sets may be blagging it we will never know). For some its become a case of im cleverer than you in regards to the chairman. Lets be blunt people can prove he is lying and make him look bad, but it doesnt solve anything he owns the football club you love and he can do with it what he wishes so does it matter that hes lying? it doesnt help PVFC if its proved, it just inflates the egos of some fans. Is he asking over the odds... I believe so, does NS really give a f**k that i think that..absolutely not, but ******* him off isnt going to get him to sell PVFC

 

Nobody has to prove Norman is lying, he does that all by himself. Fans who received the email, only brought up when they received it as people like you were insinuating who you thought had leaked it and that is defamation of character. Exactly why Norman leaked it, to blacken the characters of people he sees as a threat, that backfired but you are still trying to gain mileage out of it, why? As for blagging things, I am quite willing to meet with you or anyone who is trying to be clever and show you exactly what I received and when I received it, anytime. Proving he is lying is important, if you think it isn't you are very naive.

[Timothius]

Some fans need to understand that being a total a hole doesnt promote a nice easy sale process.

 

Neither does a price tag £5 million more than the club is worth

[Timothius]

Tim Barber said that everyone got it after the Sentinel story was published and was saying NS is lying.... as you confirm he wasnt. So does either party come out of that with any credit?

 

Tim barber said nothing of the sort so stop twisting things to suit your own muddled agenda. Tim Barber said that he and the other people on the EMAIL GROUP got the info after the Sentinel was printed. Jean has confirmed that to be true, Tim Barber and the others on the email group can quite clearly prove that. Tim Barber and the email group weren't the only ones to receive the email. Norman said he had sent an email within the last 10 days and had not received replies, he had sent it 3 days before the Sentinel printed the story and 3 of the parties who were sent the info had contacted him straight away but he didn't reply to some parties. Just some of the facts that show Norman was being economical with the truth

[Timothius]

I never thought otherwise Rob... there are too many cooks spoiling the broth making accusations and turning the struggle into personal agendas of hate and sarcasm than fact. Someone like yourself should be the person to feed information to the fans groups, not 10-15 people on personal crusades. As much as NS looks a pillock the fans shouting their mouths off look equally if not more stupid because they are actually powerless other than to remove their 24 quid a game from his pocket.

 

More muddled statements. It isn't £24 to get in for a start and Norman shouldn't be feeding information to anyone as he did.

[Spunk Trumpet]

Mattholl has been working for the club.

Carpetman does business with Norman.

Like I've said before, they put their own wellbeing before the good of the club they say they support.

I don't knock that.

Fair play.

[Paul6754]

IMHO Smurf needs to sell as the directors loans will only continue grow, this situation will not go away and only get worse, it will affect his wellbeing and life in general, he's had the experience of running a football league club for a number of years, an experience most people can only dream about. Putting the club into admin would just be messy and not benefit Smurf.

 

He has to cut his losses, especially if he is worth the reported 80-90m GBP, combine club and ground and sell at a realistic price to the local company who can reset the financial button to their financial means. This might seem naive but it's the only way for Smurf to walk away with his head held high with gratitude of most Vale fans. Perhaps some deal could be worked out whereby if Vale sell a player within 5 years for >5m than a portion of the money he walked away from could be repaid.

 

I don't think for one minute Smurf bought the club with a view to making money but bought it for the experience of being involved. He wouldn't be the first owner of a football club to depart having lost money but the experience and remaining healthy are worth far more. Better to have tried than not tried at all.

[old sage]

Mattholl has been working for the club.

Carpetman does business with Norman.

Like I've said before, they put their own wellbeing before the good of the club they say they support.

I don't knock that.

Fair play.

What's Howjy's and Super Valiant's reason for defending the owner then ? that is what I'm struggling to comprehend?