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Reality Check and simple facts


philmpv

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A few of my points have already been covered, but the "reality...and simple facts" as I see them are that Smurf is a man who unfortunately, doesn't have a clue how to improve the club. He goes from one idea to the next, with very little sophisticated thought, throws money at the most ridiculous ideas, then moans about how we don't have enough fans. The problem is quite simple. He doesn't have a genuine long term vision for the club. Ultimately he's said his vision is the Championship, but he hasn't got a clue how to get us there. The original post says that fans have unrealistic ambitions. Where do you think those have ambitions have come from? "top 6 by Christmas or plan b" etc etc.

 

I've seen Smurf on twitter again last night embarrassing himself and the club even more. I'm staggered that people still support him. I think I know why they do, but I can't go into detail without being quite offensive, which won't help anything.

 

One of his replies to a fan was, you get me 17000 fans and I'll charge £150 STs, referring to Bradford's model. What this exposes is Smurfs lack of intelligence. I'm not saying we should charge £150 by the way. V2001 introduced the target 5000 scheme and failed to budget and manage it properly. In the end it was a flash in the pan and didn't last more than one season. What Bradford have done is created a consistently affordable method of attracting a new generation of fans. Those 17000 ST holders are now regulars. If they get promoted and prices increase steadily, no doubt most will continue to attend. The higher standard of football may even attract more in the future. Obviously more people attending increasing revenue for other areas of the business; retail, programmes, catering (if managed and stocked sensibly).

 

In reply to another fan he complained about how he offered to buy a prem player 2 years ago if attendances increased, but it failed. He then used that as a reason not to go down that route again. It's those kind of statements that seriously worry me about the man that is running our football club. That clear lack of basic intelligence is staggering. He simply hasn't got a clue about Football fans, and what makes them tick.

 

Unfortunately we're stuck with him. The damage he has caused is clear to see with the year on year reduced attendances, and yet there are still people that blame the fans for not attending. You have to laugh at that kind of mentality. I care so much about the club, sometimes I have to force myself to take a break from it, it gets me so angry watching the fool making such a mess of everything. Life's too short to spend being pi88ed off all the time, so Smurf's actions make people give up on the club.

 

For as long as Smurf continues making mistake after mistake (I don't care where the money comes from, it's the way he spends it that annoys me) he'll carry on losing more and more fans. Some will still blindly support him though. Very strange.

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Reality is we seem to be flapping about like a bed sheet in a gale.

The only objective that seems to have any consistency is "championship football" at some point in the future.

We have no plan for all smurfs alphabet soup mix statements, we have little drive or direction and very little company/brand structure.

We need a leader who knows how to lead from the top

A marketing department who know how to market and promote

A PR department who know how to use the powerful tool that is PR

A sales team who know how to sell

A team manager capable of actually signing and selecting players as well as technical nous etc

Players who know how to play and put a shift in even on a bad day

A catering department who know how to cater

and a 5 year [at least] plan to get where we want to go with achievable targets on the way so that everyone travels in the same direction and sings from the same hymn sheet

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This thread epitomises football fans worldwide.

 

Divided opinions will always exist even if we were in the Premier League with the most entertaining, exciting Team the UK has seen.

 

Vale have Norman as owner of the Club so for his tenure we are having to adhere to his whims/objectives/attitudes whether we like it or not. The only way to satisfy some posters is for a new owner to emerge from somewhere and give his input into our Club. Where is that person(s) going to come from? I think we all know there are no other interested parties in taking Vale forward at this time.

 

So again I repeat we have to stick with the current owner. It doesn't mean we have to agree with all or any of his decisions but what else can we as fans do? We have to support our Club. We'll be here for life(or at least most will)and we are the only constant at any Club. Without fans Clubs die. If the present trend continues fans deciding to leave Vale will ultimately cause our demise.

 

I admire the op for his heartfelt post and I, as a die hard Valiant still want this Club to be here when I'm gone. I will criticise and moan about Norman, certain players and certainly about aspects of the running of the Club I feel are wrong. BUT at the end of the day I will still attend matches and support Vale. I implore ALL current and prospective fans who want a better future for Vale to continue to attend matches as this is our way of supporting Vale and hopefully ensuring we do indeed have a future.

 

Many things are wrong and many things have been handled badly but we are still in Division 1 and there are many, many other League Clubs who would gladly swap places with us even if we have a seriously "tarnished national reputation." UTV.

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Reading through the various recent postings on here, it's fairly obvious (at least to me) that there are some serious expectations of a lot of supporters as to what we should expect from our beloved Vale. However, I think a lot of us (me included) need to sit back from time to time and appreciate just what we are.

 

Fact - We don't have any divine right to be in the Championship. A lot of fans seem to think that we do (at least, that's what I've taken from the constant moaning that we're 'only' mid table, etc). Let's face it, we were spoiled under Rudgie. Apart from those special years, when have we ever been at a higher level and competed. A LONG time ago! Yes, every supporter wants promotion and a challenge near the top of the league every season, but that's not going to happen for 15 odd clubs in our division alone in any given season. We are a lower level team and, barring a lot of things going our way, we will remain so.

 

Fact - Norman is human. He makes mistakes. We all do. If he learns from them, great. If he doesn't, he's the one who'll ultimately suffer, as there's no chance of him getting any of his money back if this Club doesn't succeed. It's his money he's ploughing in, and he's free to do with it what he wishes. Yes, we don't all agree with how he goes about things, or what he spends his money on, but do you see them queuing around the block to invest in the Club? Without Norman, I dare say that we'd be in a LOT worse a position, both on and off the field. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and not everyone (or even most) will agree with the way he goes about things, but that's his way and barring Roman Abramovich's mother seeking to invest, we don't have much option. Do people seriously think that he doesn't want what's best for the Club (i.e. promotion) as without it, like I've said, he may as well donate all of his money to the Clinton Foundation.

 

Fact - Our crowds are crap. Without the fans attending, we will continue to have to live within our modest means. Yes, it's a vicious cycle (i.e. without good football, why should the fans pay £23 a pop). It's a case of having too. I'd rather have a Club in 20 years time to support than not. Norman said that he wanted to fill the park and, if that's the case, he'll have to let people in for free (even then, some would still demand their money back because their seats weren't covered in mink fur, or their willy wasn't shaken off after a half time whizz by [iNSERT YOUR SECRET FANCY OF CHOICE])

 

Fact - We don't know what our players are paid, nor what certain players whom we haven't signed wanted, so how can we rant (vehemently in some cases) about how tight Norman is etc? Alex Jones, for example, may have wanted £5k a week, which is clearly not on for a Club of our means. We just don't know. Yet so many supporters spout as if Norman calls them personally to discuss the terms of each players contract. Every signing is a risk that might not pay off, so I don't blame the Club if they're not throwing stupid money around. Look at Yates, crocked for virtually the season just after signing a new contract extension and Andoh, out for the whole of last season. If we did push to boat out and sign, say, 11 Championship players on Championship wages, who's to say that the majority would succeed? It could be the death of the Club.

 

Fact - Who's to say that an 'experienced' journeyman manager is the best thing for us? The fact that they've been around the block invariably means that they will have some glaring failures on their CV, and who's to say we won't be the next such failure. All managers start somewhere, and the next successful manager that we have could be Michael Brown. It may not be, of course, but to me he's certainly understood that, at present, we need to be hard to beat (which he's done so far), as we can't take an attacking approach with the players that we have (our only fit strikers are Reg and young DT), as we'd be on a hiding to nothing if we did. You can say he's only played Chesterfield and Oldham, which is true, and things may change when we play the 'bigger' teams, but why not give the bloke a chance, as we did for Rudgie (before anyone starts, I'm not bigging him up as the next Rudgie)? Do people seriously think that we'll get the likes of Rowett et al here at the moment?

 

Final fact - We all love the Vale, and want the best for the Club. Keep the faith.

 

Spot On

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I can see the original posters points and I agree with some of them although as others have pointed out we shouldn't settle for the 'we're Port Vale and we are a 3rd tier club(League One) side because that's where we have spent most of our history' approach either. As said if Wigan, Reading and Bournemouth as 3 examples(until recent years(2000s onwards say)were historically 3 teams who were no bigger or better than Vale had then they'd perhaps have never achieve the successes(reaching the Premier League for one) that they have? We can all debate how they've achieved it til the cows come home(2 of them being in far more affuluent areas than Stoke probably helps) but that's another issue.

 

However it is very easy to become apathetic when your club is just 'drifting' I myself am probably guilty of that over the last 2 seasons or so. I still go to Vale but from someone who missed very few games in the early 2000s I now attend 12 or so home games and 4 or 5 away. It's not all because Vale have been average-poor(as we were for periods when I was nearly fanatical) some is about my own lifestyle choices/finances/where I live, but some of it is apathy.

 

If the current form was under the V2001 period I'd have probably been a lot more vocal and not happy but I just don't have the energy/time or inclination anymore. I still care about Vale and always will they're my team and I made my choice nearly 25 years ago.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on Smurthwaite, I personnally don't dislike the bloke and although he's said things he shouldn't and made mistakes it doesn't make me hold it against him and he's not the reason I don't go to Vale as much anymore. I respect the opinions of those that don't like him as many of the posters were those I protested with against the whole sorry V2001 regime, even if I don't total agree with them at the moment.

I honestly think he wants to get the club into the Championship and then sell(as it would be worth more) but doesn't know how to do it, experience and know how wise, more than money. I also don't hold the Bruno gamble against him(I think Smurfs playoff expectations were a bit pie in the sky personally), we tried a foreign manager with so called modern thinking and it failed. I don't think Mourinho conned him either, if he did then so did Carvahal and Karanka they all gave references and who wouldn't to a friend and someone you have worked with unless they were truly hopeless?

 

I think the clubs at a bit of a crossroads and what happens for the rest of this season could be very crucial and on what and who a lot of things will be judged!

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This thread epitomises football fans worldwide.

 

Divided opinions will always exist even if we were in the Premier League with the most entertaining, exciting Team the UK has seen.

 

Vale have Norman as owner of the Club so for his tenure we are having to adhere to his whims/objectives/attitudes whether we like it or not. The only way to satisfy some posters is for a new owner to emerge from somewhere and give his input into our Club. Where is that person(s) going to come from? I think we all know there are no other interested parties in taking Vale forward at this time.

 

So again I repeat we have to stick with the current owner. It doesn't mean we have to agree with all or any of his decisions but what else can we as fans do? We have to support our Club. We'll be here for life(or at least most will)and we are the only constant at any Club. Without fans Clubs die. If the present trend continues fans deciding to leave Vale will ultimately cause our demise.

 

I admire the op for his heartfelt post and I, as a die hard Valiant still want this Club to be here when I'm gone. I will criticise and moan about Norman, certain players and certainly about aspects of the running of the Club I feel are wrong. BUT at the end of the day I will still attend matches and support Vale. I implore ALL current and prospective fans who want a better future for Vale to continue to attend matches as this is our way of supporting Vale and hopefully ensuring we do indeed have a future.

 

Many things are wrong and many things have been handled badly but we are still in Division 1 and there are many, many other League Clubs who would gladly swap places with us even if we have a seriously "tarnished national reputation." UTV.

 

I disagree about no other interested parties. There were, but Norman valued the club higher than it's true value.

 

Without a new owner, you're right, we are stuck with Smurf. But rather than just accept his constant mistakes, fans have every right to challenge him. Putting the onus back on the fans to attend is all well and good, but lets face it, that's been the case for years now and it simply doesn't work, and at the risk of repeating myself, is lazy. This is where Smurf can make a difference, and why I judge his Chairmanship on the impact he has had on attendances. He inherited a club on the up, attendances increased due to promotion, and then during his time they have decreased every single year.

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I disagree about no other interested parties. There were, but Norman valued the club higher than it's true value.

 

Without a new owner, you're right, we are stuck with Smurf. But rather than just accept his constant mistakes, fans have every right to challenge him. Putting the onus back on the fans to attend is all well and good, but lets face it, that's been the case for years now and it simply doesn't work, and at the risk of repeating myself, is lazy. This is where Smurf can make a difference, and why I judge his Chairmanship on the impact he has had on attendances. He inherited a club on the up, attendances increased due to promotion, and then during his time they have decreased every single year.

 

 

 

I agree that fans have every right to challenge Smurf but I believe by not attending matches is not the way forward for the Club.

 

I accept I am a die hard and will attend even if we were in the 7th tier of non league football. However by simply not going to matches actually harms Vale more than anything else. Fans are the life blood of Clubs and without us Vale would not be where they are now.

 

Each individual has his/her right to attend or not. All I'm saying is that it's clear there are many, many fans who have watched Vale on and off for many years who are now voicing their expressions of discontent by not going to actual matches. We need you, all of you. I'm not Smurf's ambassador or biggest friend but set aside any personal hate/dislike of the man and his actions please and see the long term future for Vale by being part of it....attend as many games at home for financial reasons to the Vale as possible.

 

If the majority of "floaters" and/or those that have lost interest lately could attend regularly(irrespective of the dross on and off the park)then it may just make a difference in budgets to attract better players to our midst.That is not rocket science.

 

Perhaps I'm looking for miracles in a change off mindset in some ex Vale fans and the prospective future fans but come on we have to, as fans help the club in any way we can even though the Owner may give off the wrong vibes to some. We support Vale, not Norman. I'm convinced that even some of our so called lesser talented players would play better and enjoy their experiences more if we had the crowds of old back again and the atmosphere at matches was more optimistic than most have been lately.

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I don't think many people conciously don't go any more because of Normans ownership. Fact is that the atmosphere has got worse and worse and we have been playing really badly. I don't have any confidence that Norman will spend any money we give him wisely to improve things and I think a lot of others feel the same though. I hope Michael Brown can turn things round, I like the guy and think he will make a good manager but the squad is looking woefully short of league 1 standard players, particularly goal scorers.

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In other words, sit back and accept mediocrity.

Norman says we can't afford then we all accept it. Despite him spunking a bucketload of money on wages for **** foreigners, manager and his staff.

 

Sadly mate, there is 2500 of you who think the same way. Probably down to closer to 2000 in the summer. And moreso as years go on as people wake up.

Then it will be the fans fault for not turning up like 'Papa Smurf' says.

 

If Norman says we cant afford them then we cant! Can you accept that! If he wants tio "spunnk" his own money then that is his choice! He bought the club and saved it from going under!

Also as he has already said, he backed his manager! He let the manager sign who he thought would be good additions! Would you rather he bought the players? No of course you wouldnt!

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Also... Whatever mistakes Norman has made he is still a decent bloke all in all.

Some of the abuse he got on Twitter last night was dreadful! At least he has the balls to stand up and answer questions. Regardless of if we like the answers! Have people forgot the mess we were actually in when he decided to take us on. We may well be badly run and yes we may be poor this season but we are still solvent and still have a chance to make something of our season.

I also want to shout out to the fan who was openly racist last night towards Bradford fans. We moan about the chairman bringing the club down but we really do have some scummers following our club. Alex Jones was never our player. He was on loan! To suggest the kid and the chairman have no ambition and no loyalty by letting him go is plain thick!

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I agree that fans have every right to challenge Smurf but I believe by not attending matches is not the way forward for the Club.

 

I accept I am a die hard and will attend even if we were in the 7th tier of non league football. However by simply not going to matches actually harms Vale more than anything else. Fans are the life blood of Clubs and without us Vale would not be where they are now.

 

Each individual has his/her right to attend or not. All I'm saying is that it's clear there are many, many fans who have watched Vale on and off for many years who are now voicing their expressions of discontent by not going to actual matches. We need you, all of you. I'm not Smurf's ambassador or biggest friend but set aside any personal hate/dislike of the man and his actions please and see the long term future for Vale by being part of it....attend as many games at home for financial reasons to the Vale as possible.

 

If the majority of "floaters" and/or those that have lost interest lately could attend regularly(irrespective of the dross on and off the park)then it may just make a difference in budgets to attract better players to our midst.That is not rocket science.

 

Perhaps I'm looking for miracles in a change off mindset in some ex Vale fans and the prospective future fans but come on we have to, as fans help the club in any way we can even though the Owner may give off the wrong vibes to some. We support Vale, not Norman. I'm convinced that even some of our so called lesser talented players would play better and enjoy their experiences more if we had the crowds of old back again and the atmosphere at matches was more optimistic than most have been lately.

There are a small number of fans who will go whatever drivel is thrown at them, but many many more want some entertainment for their hard earned cash. What other product would you buy if it was not up to scratch? Unless you were employed by them did you give a toss when Woolworths, BHS, Allied Carpets closed?

Why should those who have lost interest shell out their hard earned cash for the benefit of those still going? They have stopped going for a reason . Nobody else is going to pay up so you can keep going, the ball is well and truly in the clubs court.

I myself have not totally lost interest but am very close to it along with many others I have spoken to. The longer these people stay away the easier it becomes for them and the harder it becomes to attract them back.

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I disagree about no other interested parties. There were, but Norman valued the club higher than it's true value.

 

Without a new owner, you're right, we are stuck with Smurf. But rather than just accept his constant mistakes, fans have every right to challenge him. Putting the onus back on the fans to attend is all well and good, but lets face it, that's been the case for years now and it simply doesn't work, and at the risk of repeating myself, is lazy. This is where Smurf can make a difference, and why I judge his Chairmanship on the impact he has had on attendances. He inherited a club on the up, attendances increased due to promotion, and then during his time they have decreased every single year.

 

Crowds are always going to dwindle when you sit in mid table in a league for a few seasons. Fans will come back when they see success, it happens the country over.

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There are clubs in this division who are worse than us and their managers bought players who they thought would improve the team but haven't so it isn't just a peculiarity at Vale Park.Now that their mentor has resigned the players he bought in have two choices either leave or step up to the plate and put more effort in, Browny will expect them to put in a shift and if he signs a few who improve the team and lets face it they only need to be average to improve this lot then we will have a good new year.

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Also... Whatever mistakes Norman has made he is still a decent bloke all in all.

Some of the abuse he got on Twitter last night was dreadful! At least he has the balls to stand up and answer questions. Regardless of if we like the answers! Have people forgot the mess we were actually in when he decided to take us on. We may well be badly run and yes we may be poor this season but we are still solvent and still have a chance to make something of our season.

I also want to shout out to the fan who was openly racist last night towards Bradford fans. We moan about the chairman bringing the club down but we really do have some scummers following our club. Alex Jones was never our player. He was on loan! To suggest the kid and the chairman have no ambition and no loyalty by letting him go is plain thick!

 

Agreed, personally I don't like the fact he's on twitter as it does the club and him no favours however he tried to answer questions.

 

Some of the abuse he and Bradford got from people who are presumably 'Vale fans' was abysmal. Those people, you know who you are, should hang your heads in shame or better still buy him out and let a load of similar filthbags abuse you morning, noon or night.

 

Reasoned questioning of him and the club fine, abusing because you are a pig ignorant low life ain't!

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Bradford City v Port Vale, 11 February 1984

 

Score 2-2

Competition League Division Three

Attendance 5,340

View Bradford City v Port Vale head to head

2Bradford City

 

2Port Vale

 

0 comments

 

Whilst acknowledging 30 years is a very very long time ago, Bradford have never been huge.

What they have done is tapped into the fact it is a huge City and probably kept fans who may well of gone to Leeds in the past.

Vale can never ever hope to attract 17,000 season ticket holders even at £ 100 a pop, mainly due to the fact that 4 miles down the road Lard have a hard core of 14,000 supplemented now by the Premiership ' tourists ' who it is trendy for. The only new Vale youngsters are kids of people on here and other regulars, ' Daddy daddy can i go to a football match ? ' Yes son you can go to see Lard v Man Utd for £ 35 for both of us with quality catering or Port Vale v Fleetwood for the same price with no catering.

Difficult choice.

None of the above is Smurfs fault really, i would imagine with Keith Ryder in charge it would of been the same.

92 clubs

11 achieve titles or promotion

14 achieve relegation

67 end up in the middle.

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