Reality Check and simple facts

[Like Vale I Do]

Exeter.

I've stated this before.

No club chairman should slag off his supporters and our great football club on an impromptu interview on sky sports.

Unforgivable.

Since then he has lost our great club many supporters, sent us down the most ridiculous path, aligned himself with a manager who thought he was going to sell out Vale Park and make millions from players and continues to make bad decision after bad decision for the football club.

The last 12 months on his watch have been shocking and any other businessman would have been sacked.

Sadly, he is the owner and we have to go along with what he does.

But the facts are there that hundreds into thousands of supporters have had enough of him and are apathetic of how the football club is.

 

I see. Thanks

I sometimes feel those people who have stopped going / are apathetic have given up on port vale not Norman Smurthwaite.

It's extremely difficult, I couldn't stop going / stop caring because of what Norman has done, same as you

[geosname]

Reading through the various recent postings on here, it's fairly obvious (at least to me) that there are some serious expectations of a lot of supporters as to what we should expect from our beloved Vale. However, I think a lot of us (me included) need to sit back from time to time and appreciate just what we are.

 

Fact - We don't have any divine right to be in the Championship. A lot of fans seem to think that we do (at least, that's what I've taken from the constant moaning that we're 'only' mid table, etc). Let's face it, we were spoiled under Rudgie. Apart from those special years, when have we ever been at a higher level and competed. A LONG time ago! Yes, every supporter wants promotion and a challenge near the top of the league every season, but that's not going to happen for 15 odd clubs in our division alone in any given season. We are a lower level team and, barring a lot of things going our way, we will remain so.

Not a devine right... but a hope, a dream, a wish

 

Fact - Norman is human. He makes mistakes. We all do. If he learns from them, great. If he doesn't, he's the one who'll ultimately suffer, as there's no chance of him getting any of his money back if this Club doesn't succeed. It's his money he's ploughing in, and he's free to do with it what he wishes. Yes, we don't all agree with how he goes about things, or what he spends his money on, but do you see them queuing around the block to invest in the Club? Without Norman, I dare say that we'd be in a LOT worse a position, both on and off the field. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and not everyone (or even most) will agree with the way he goes about things, but that's his way and barring Roman Abramovich's mother seeking to invest, we don't have much option. Do people seriously think that he doesn't want what's best for the Club (i.e. promotion) as without it, like I've said, he may as well donate all of his money to the Clinton Foundation.

Humans are conditioned from childhood to learn from their mistakes...

 

Fact - Our crowds are crap. Without the fans attending, we will continue to have to live within our modest means. Yes, it's a vicious cycle (i.e. without good football, why should the fans pay £23 a pop). It's a case of having too. I'd rather have a Club in 20 years time to support than not. Norman said that he wanted to fill the park and, if that's the case, he'll have to let people in for free (even then, some would still demand their money back because their seats weren't covered in mink fur, or their willy wasn't shaken off after a half time whizz by [iNSERT YOUR SECRET FANCY OF CHOICE])

The numbers arent good. It is expensive. Fans are starting to realise that they dont "have to", far better if they want to but at the moment they dont. He could throw the gates open and pay people to come but if its cack he still wouldnt fill the ground. Its far easier to live within your means if you use money wisely rather than throwing it in the bin.

 

Fact - We don't know what our players are paid, nor what certain players whom we haven't signed wanted, so how can we rant (vehemently in some cases) about how tight Norman is etc? Alex Jones, for example, may have wanted £5k a week, which is clearly not on for a Club of our means. We just don't know. Yet so many supporters spout as if Norman calls them personally to discuss the terms of each players contract. Every signing is a risk that might not pay off, so I don't blame the Club if they're not throwing stupid money around. Look at Yates, crocked for virtually the season just after signing a new contract extension and Andoh, out for the whole of last season. If we did push to boat out and sign, say, 11 Championship players on Championship wages, who's to say that the majority would succeed? It could be the death of the Club.

I dont want to know what they are paid, I dont really care what they are paid

Fact - Who's to say that an 'experienced' journeyman manager is the best thing for us? The fact that they've been around the block invariably means that they will have some glaring failures on their CV, and who's to say we won't be the next such failure. All managers start somewhere, and the next successful manager that we have could be Michael Brown. It may not be, of course, but to me he's certainly understood that, at present, we need to be hard to beat (which he's done so far), as we can't take an attacking approach with the players that we have (our only fit strikers are Reg and young DT), as we'd be on a hiding to nothing if we did. You can say he's only played Chesterfield and Oldham, which is true, and things may change when we play the 'bigger' teams, but why not give the bloke a chance, as we did for Rudgie (before anyone starts, I'm not bigging him up as the next Rudgie)? Do people seriously think that we'll get the likes of Rowett et al here at the moment?

 

Final fact - We all love the Vale, and want the best for the Club. Keep the faith.

Any new manager/player is a gamble thats why you do your research/scouting and try to reduce the risk/minimise the odds

[carpetman123]

Reading through the various recent postings on here, it's fairly obvious (at least to me) that there are some serious expectations of a lot of supporters as to what we should expect from our beloved Vale. However, I think a lot of us (me included) need to sit back from time to time and appreciate just what we are.

 

Fact - We don't have any divine right to be in the Championship. A lot of fans seem to think that we do (at least, that's what I've taken from the constant moaning that we're 'only' mid table, etc). Let's face it, we were spoiled under Rudgie. Apart from those special years, when have we ever been at a higher level and competed. A LONG time ago! Yes, every supporter wants promotion and a challenge near the top of the league every season, but that's not going to happen for 15 odd clubs in our division alone in any given season. We are a lower level team and, barring a lot of things going our way, we will remain so.

 

Fact - Norman is human. He makes mistakes. We all do. If he learns from them, great. If he doesn't, he's the one who'll ultimately suffer, as there's no chance of him getting any of his money back if this Club doesn't succeed. It's his money he's ploughing in, and he's free to do with it what he wishes. Yes, we don't all agree with how he goes about things, or what he spends his money on, but do you see them queuing around the block to invest in the Club? Without Norman, I dare say that we'd be in a LOT worse a position, both on and off the field. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and not everyone (or even most) will agree with the way he goes about things, but that's his way and barring Roman Abramovich's mother seeking to invest, we don't have much option. Do people seriously think that he doesn't want what's best for the Club (i.e. promotion) as without it, like I've said, he may as well donate all of his money to the Clinton Foundation.

 

Fact - Our crowds are crap. Without the fans attending, we will continue to have to live within our modest means. Yes, it's a vicious cycle (i.e. without good football, why should the fans pay £23 a pop). It's a case of having too. I'd rather have a Club in 20 years time to support than not. Norman said that he wanted to fill the park and, if that's the case, he'll have to let people in for free (even then, some would still demand their money back because their seats weren't covered in mink fur, or their willy wasn't shaken off after a half time whizz by [iNSERT YOUR SECRET FANCY OF CHOICE])

 

Fact - We don't know what our players are paid, nor what certain players whom we haven't signed wanted, so how can we rant (vehemently in some cases) about how tight Norman is etc? Alex Jones, for example, may have wanted £5k a week, which is clearly not on for a Club of our means. We just don't know. Yet so many supporters spout as if Norman calls them personally to discuss the terms of each players contract. Every signing is a risk that might not pay off, so I don't blame the Club if they're not throwing stupid money around. Look at Yates, crocked for virtually the season just after signing a new contract extension and Andoh, out for the whole of last season. If we did push to boat out and sign, say, 11 Championship players on Championship wages, who's to say that the majority would succeed? It could be the death of the Club.

 

Fact - Who's to say that an 'experienced' journeyman manager is the best thing for us? The fact that they've been around the block invariably means that they will have some glaring failures on their CV, and who's to say we won't be the next such failure. All managers start somewhere, and the next successful manager that we have could be Michael Brown. It may not be, of course, but to me he's certainly understood that, at present, we need to be hard to beat (which he's done so far), as we can't take an attacking approach with the players that we have (our only fit strikers are Reg and young DT), as we'd be on a hiding to nothing if we did. You can say he's only played Chesterfield and Oldham, which is true, and things may change when we play the 'bigger' teams, but why not give the bloke a chance, as we did for Rudgie (before anyone starts, I'm not bigging him up as the next Rudgie)? Do people seriously think that we'll get the likes of Rowett et al here at the moment?

 

Final fact - We all love the Vale, and want the best for the Club. Keep the faith.

 

Brilliant post!!! Be careful what you wish for!!

[Inny]

The reality at the moment is that we have a reputation within football as being a very badly run club. I was speakinh to a football agent before Christmas who says we the worst run club he has ever witnessed!!!

 

The past 12 months have been one of the worst i can remember. The fans were insulted, managers treated badly, we had the reputation of the club tarnished (JFH) and we embarked on a suicidal recruitment program.

 

Goinh forward i would like Brown to have a crack but he has a woeful squad to choose from. I doubt even the special one would be able to get us scoring.

 

I am a Vale fan though so i will be there on Saturday as usual.

[Rudge's Flat Cap]

Reading through the various recent postings on here, it's fairly obvious (at least to me) that there are some serious expectations of a lot of supporters as to what we should expect from our beloved Vale. However, I think a lot of us (me included) need to sit back from time to time and appreciate just what we are.

 

Fact - We don't have any divine right to be in the Championship. A lot of fans seem to think that we do (at least, that's what I've taken from the constant moaning that we're 'only' mid table, etc). Let's face it, we were spoiled under Rudgie. Apart from those special years, when have we ever been at a higher level and competed. A LONG time ago! Yes, every supporter wants promotion and a challenge near the top of the league every season, but that's not going to happen for 15 odd clubs in our division alone in any given season. We are a lower level team and, barring a lot of things going our way, we will remain so.

 

Fact - Norman is human. He makes mistakes. We all do. If he learns from them, great. If he doesn't, he's the one who'll ultimately suffer, as there's no chance of him getting any of his money back if this Club doesn't succeed. It's his money he's ploughing in, and he's free to do with it what he wishes. Yes, we don't all agree with how he goes about things, or what he spends his money on, but do you see them queuing around the block to invest in the Club? Without Norman, I dare say that we'd be in a LOT worse a position, both on and off the field. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and not everyone (or even most) will agree with the way he goes about things, but that's his way and barring Roman Abramovich's mother seeking to invest, we don't have much option. Do people seriously think that he doesn't want what's best for the Club (i.e. promotion) as without it, like I've said, he may as well donate all of his money to the Clinton Foundation.

 

Fact - Our crowds are crap. Without the fans attending, we will continue to have to live within our modest means. Yes, it's a vicious cycle (i.e. without good football, why should the fans pay £23 a pop). It's a case of having too. I'd rather have a Club in 20 years time to support than not. Norman said that he wanted to fill the park and, if that's the case, he'll have to let people in for free (even then, some would still demand their money back because their seats weren't covered in mink fur, or their willy wasn't shaken off after a half time whizz by [iNSERT YOUR SECRET FANCY OF CHOICE])

 

Fact - We don't know what our players are paid, nor what certain players whom we haven't signed wanted, so how can we rant (vehemently in some cases) about how tight Norman is etc? Alex Jones, for example, may have wanted £5k a week, which is clearly not on for a Club of our means. We just don't know. Yet so many supporters spout as if Norman calls them personally to discuss the terms of each players contract. Every signing is a risk that might not pay off, so I don't blame the Club if they're not throwing stupid money around. Look at Yates, crocked for virtually the season just after signing a new contract extension and Andoh, out for the whole of last season. If we did push to boat out and sign, say, 11 Championship players on Championship wages, who's to say that the majority would succeed? It could be the death of the Club.

 

Fact - Who's to say that an 'experienced' journeyman manager is the best thing for us? The fact that they've been around the block invariably means that they will have some glaring failures on their CV, and who's to say we won't be the next such failure. All managers start somewhere, and the next successful manager that we have could be Michael Brown. It may not be, of course, but to me he's certainly understood that, at present, we need to be hard to beat (which he's done so far), as we can't take an attacking approach with the players that we have (our only fit strikers are Reg and young DT), as we'd be on a hiding to nothing if we did. You can say he's only played Chesterfield and Oldham, which is true, and things may change when we play the 'bigger' teams, but why not give the bloke a chance, as we did for Rudgie (before anyone starts, I'm not bigging him up as the next Rudgie)? Do people seriously think that we'll get the likes of Rowett et al here at the moment?

 

Final fact - We all love the Vale, and want the best for the Club. Keep the faith.

 

The sense that us realistic Vale fans share, put across very well.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Very reasoned opening post. Possibly one of the best in that respect I've ever seen on the forum.

 

Don't agree with all aspects but full credit for such a genuine and thought provoking piece.

[Yukon]

I see. Thanks

I sometimes feel those people who have stopped going / are apathetic have given up on port vale not Norman Smurthwaite.

It's extremely difficult, I couldn't stop going / stop caring because of what Norman has done, same as you

 

He (Smurf) has completely drained over 25 years of enthusiasm from me with his mismanagement. He's stumbling from disaster to disaster & I'm getting sick of watching it happen.

[cpade]

Not a devine right... but a hope, a dream, a wish

 

 

Humans are conditioned from childhood to learn from their mistakes...

 

 

The numbers arent good. It is expensive. Fans are starting to realise that they dont "have to", far better if they want to but at the moment they dont. He could throw the gates open and pay people to come but if its cack he still wouldnt fill the ground. Its far easier to live within your means if you use money wisely rather than throwing it in the bin.

 

 

I dont want to know what they are paid, I dont really care what they are paid

 

Any new manager/player is a gamble thats why you do your research/scouting and try to reduce the risk/minimise the odds

 

Great response

[cpade]

2 simple questions. What is the chairmans vision for port vale & what is his strategy to achieve it.

[fairportnick]

He (Smurf) has completely drained over 25 years of enthusiasm from me with his mismanagement. He's stumbling from disaster to disaster & I'm getting sick of watching it happen.

 

Don't forget how nasty you were to those more enlightened souls who saw it perhaps just a little earlier than you did.

[CAVALIER]

Mediocrity if that is what we've come to accept, well most seem to have. That's not good enough. It'll see us relegated if not careful. Gates plummeting now and it'll get worse

We need positivity now, signings now, good messages coming out now.

I'll be forever grateful to Smurf but this season has been a real test of faith.

[valeparklife]

The original analysis is fair and accurate however we are still right to question the continuing poor decisions taken over the last couple of years in respect of the strategic management of the club.

 

It is very rare indeed for a manager to resign, Port Vale's last three managers have all resigned, that is virtually unparalleled and makes a strong case for a relationship breakdown and unreasonable interference between the Chairman and the Manager.

 

 

You don't actually believe Bruno resigned off his own back do you?

 

In Smurf's interview after Bruno left he kept saying "it's not nice for a manager to have to find out he's lost his job at xmas".

 

Obviously told to resign or be sacked. Looks better on Bruno's CV to have him "resign".

[TylerB]

Although some fair point were made, this is pretty much the 'little Port Vale' mentality that will see the club either go backwards or stand still at best. Depressing.

[MarkCh]

I stopped reading at 'Our crowds are crap'.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Although some fair point were made, this is pretty much the 'little Port Vale' mentality that will see the club either go backwards or stand still at best. Depressing.

 

Sadly the greed and riches in the Premier League and Championship are killing lower league football.

 

Let's not forget we've been in admin twice in recent years, I think it would be an abomination to do it three times.

 

What the chairman must do is finally appoint a decent long term manager, not someone that does well for a couple of months and then settles for crap.