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Brian Clough


JOHNNYAITCH

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Bea I don't think Clough was the type of man to apologise because the editor of his magazine wanted him to, do you?

 

I have no way of knowing, and have an open mind - I'm prepared to hear both sides of the arguments, unlike the vast majority of fawners on this thread who won't consider a balanced attitude as a healthy thing.

 

If I had to guess though, I'd say that the fact that there was probably a considerable fee at stake might have prised an apology out of him that wouldn't have come otherwise. Plus the fact that a con siderable number of respected names like John Aldridge and a few seasons of abuse whenever he went to Merseyside might have worn the stubbornness out of him a bit.

 

Others will have advised him that he'd better apologise as opinion on Hillsbrough steadily shifted as the truth came out too.

 

The Fashanu relatives never ever got that apology though foir his bullying there, in fact I've seen a clip on YouTube of the clearly alcohol affected Clough making homophobic remarks as late as 1995, and laughing at the way he bullied Justin Fashanu - very classy.

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"“It’s a good after-dinner speech but unfortunately most of it isn’t true,” [Alan Hill] told me. “Brian wasn’t drunk, he wasn’t crawling on his hands and knees, he didn’t sit facing a wall, he didn’t mention the carpet once and there was no flowerpot… it just feels like he [saunders] has put this story through a very imaginative scriptwriter and this is what they’ve come up with.”

 

All rather awkward, I’m sure you will agree. “Brian liked a drink and we all know he had a situation towards the end but he wasn’t drunk that day at all,” Hill continued. “He didn’t do the things that have been said, and I’ve no idea why he [saunders] would say them. Brian arrived with Archie Gemmill. ‘Hello, Mr Clough,’ Saunders said. ‘Son, call me Brian,’ he replied. It was all perfectly normal. He didn’t really want to speak to an agent, that’s correct, and we were told it was going to be difficult because Saunders had already agreed a deal with Everton. ‘It won’t be difficult,’ Brian told him, ‘we’ll just offer you more money than they have.’ Then off he went up the garden to smell the lavender.

 

“When he’d gone, Saunders told me Everton had offered him £8,000. “A month?’ I asked. ‘No, a week.’ Crikey. I told Brian and his reaction was ‘Bloody hell, that’s more than me, our Nigel and Pearcey get together.’ First of all, though, he wanted me to do something. ‘Smell this flower,’ he said, ‘it’s beautiful.’

 

“After half an hour Saunders said he would talk it through with his wife and went home. Then at 9pm he rang to say Liverpool had matched our offer and he would rather go there because his father used to play for them. So that’s it. Brian wasn’t drunk, and it’s not fair. There are all sorts of different Brian Clough stories – I tell some myself, but not derogatory ones, not ones like this.”

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Interesting article in The Guardian about Saunders' story.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/07/brian-clough-dean-saunders-nottingham-forest

 

I shouldn't take too much notice of the bloke who wrote that article,Daniel Taylor was the same journalist who said this a few weeks ago:-

 

He said: "Then there is the story that reached me earlier in the summer about the vacancy for a new Port Vale manager. Neil Redfearn was interviewed and Port Vale, mid-table finishers in League One, liked what they saw. The talks broke down when Redfearn heard the salary was £40,000 a year – less than the kit man might earn at many Premier League clubs."

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Nobody denies he was highly charismatic to watch, liked by his public and had great and even unique man-management and leadership skills. So did Hitler for many years.

 

Nobody has also in the last few posts referred to his alleged and fairly well accepted as true 'problems' with integrity and the incompetence of England managers after Clough's era is totally irrelevant. Is it ok to be a great manager but have dark and serious allegations that only illness prevented being seen through ?

 

 

If he had managed England he could have used his 'Blatter'-like skills and we might have hosted and won another World Cup, but I wouldn't want one that was won that way.

 

 

What are these "dark and serious" allegations , Bea?

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What are these "dark and serious" allegations , Bea?

 

 

I have actually provided links earlier, and am not willing to get into a slanging match on them, they are not my own allegations, perhaps some who have posted on this thread might be kind enough to note that.

 

However, they exist, and here are the links again, I hope you read them fully and absorb them:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/clough-wanted-cash-bung-sugar-claims-1490823.html

 

especially this one-

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2387218/Parry-puzzled-by-Clough-bungs.html

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1343886-liverpool-supporters-can-never-forgive-brian-clough-over-hillsborough-slur

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2104035/Brian-Cloughs-views-devastated-Justin-Fashanu.html

 

 

If anyoie has any issues with what those people have written, maybe they should contact them directly or forward their own views to the publications concerned.

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"They say Rome wasn't built in a day,but then again I wasn't on that particular job"

 

Brian Clough

 

Not bad for an alcoholic who was so badly affected by the premature end of his football career. As Martin O'Neill said ""He had fantastic charisma, unbelievable charisma. Outwardly he had this fantastic self-belief and self-confidence but in truth I think sometimes he was as vulnerable as all of us."

 

As the saying goes.."Let him who is without sin...."

 

End of for me

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I have actually provided links earlier, and am not willing to get into a slanging match on them, they are not my own allegations, perhaps some who have posted on this thread might be kind enough to note that.

 

However, they exist, and here are the links again, I hope you read them fully and absorb them:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/clough-wanted-cash-bung-sugar-claims-1490823.html

 

especially this one-

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2387218/Parry-puzzled-by-Clough-bungs.html

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1343886-liverpool-supporters-can-never-forgive-brian-clough-over-hillsborough-slur

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2104035/Brian-Cloughs-views-devastated-Justin-Fashanu.html

 

 

If anyoie has any issues with what those people have written, maybe they should contact them directly or forward their own views to the publications concerned.

 

There's no evidence in any of those links though that Brian Clough ever took a bung. It's the word of one person over another and it would be interesting to know if Lord Sugar ever did repeat those accusations outside of a court of law. Based on the word of one person over another, no decent jury would ever commit.

 

The Hillsborough comments were abhorrent and deserve condemnation and I agree the apology seems contrived. As for the comments about Justin Fashanu, did he ever say anything other than he didn't like him going to gay clubs?

 

Edit: Yes it appears he may have done:

 

http://www.petertatchell.net/sport/justin_fashanu.htm

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/11/hitzlsperger-fashanu-gay-football-players

 

Hard to defend someone who openly admits using homophobic language. A sad sign of the times.

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I shouldn't take too much notice of the bloke who wrote that article,Daniel Taylor was the same journalist who said this a few weeks ago:-

 

He said: "Then there is the story that reached me earlier in the summer about the vacancy for a new Port Vale manager. Neil Redfearn was interviewed and Port Vale, mid-table finishers in League One, liked what they saw. The talks broke down when Redfearn heard the salary was £40,000 a year – less than the kit man might earn at many Premier League clubs."

 

Clearly you haven't met Daniel Taylor or bothered to look at his previous work. Just because Smurf says it wasn't true .............

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I have actually provided links earlier, and am not willing to get into a slanging match on them, they are not my own allegations, perhaps some who have posted on this thread might be kind enough to note that.

 

However, they exist, and here are the links again, I hope you read them fully and absorb them:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/clough-wanted-cash-bung-sugar-claims-1490823.html

 

especially this one-

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2387218/Parry-puzzled-by-Clough-bungs.html

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1343886-liverpool-supporters-can-never-forgive-brian-clough-over-hillsborough-slur

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2104035/Brian-Cloughs-views-devastated-Justin-Fashanu.html

 

 

If anyoie has any issues with what those people have written, maybe they should contact them directly or forward their own views to the publications concerned.

 

 

 

After reading these, and thanks for the links, it seems to be one man's word against another's. No real concrete evidence that Clough actually did take bungs.

Just my opinion, of course.

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There's no evidence in any of those links though that Brian Clough ever took a bung. It's the word of one person over another and it would be interesting to know if Lord Sugar ever did repeat those accusations outside of a court of law. Based on the word of one person over another, no decent jury would ever commit.

 

The Hillsborough comments were abhorrent and deserve condemnation and I agree the apology seems contrived. As for the comments about Justin Fashanu, did he ever say anything other than he didn't like him going to gay clubs?

 

Edit: Yes it appears he may have done:

 

http://www.petertatchell.net/sport/justin_fashanu.htm

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/11/hitzlsperger-fashanu-gay-football-players

 

Hard to defend someone who openly admits using homophobic language. A sad sign of the times.

 

For the greater part of cloughs life it homosexuality was illegal in many parts of the UK. It's a bit wrong to judge the man on 2016 views of the world. It's a bit like judging Churchill on his homophobic views despite what he did for the world. Obviously today they are viewed as abhorrent and rightly so but it's not right to use that against him in today's world.

 

Oh and Daniel Taylor is a **** as well.

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