Brian Clough

[Bea Smith]

Nobody denies he was highly charismatic to watch, liked by his public and had great and even unique man-management and leadership skills. So did Hitler for many years.

 

Nobody has also in the last few posts referred to his alleged and fairly well accepted as true 'problems' with integrity and the incompetence of England managers after Clough's era is totally irrelevant. Is it ok to be a great manager but have dark and serious allegations that only illness prevented being seen through ?

 

If he had managed England he could have used his 'Blatter'-like skills and we might have hosted and won another World Cup, but I wouldn't want one that was won that way.

[Paul6754]

I used to live in Bramcote, Nottingham in the early 80's and we used to get our newspapers from Cloughie's brother who owned the local newspaper shop on Derby Road just off the Bramcote round-a-bout on the A52. Often when I went in the shop Cloughie was lurking around and often his dulcet tones could be heard in the back but I never got to talk with him. His brother had the same persona as Brian.

 

Forest fans idolized him and in John Robertson Forest had a player who was an absolute joy to watch. One of my favorite quotes from Cloughie was when he was asked why he'd not been appointed England manager to which he replied, "The FA were scared I would shake them up and they were absolutelly right".

[Bea Smith]

I used to live in Bramcote, Nottingham in the early 80's and we used to get our newspapers from Cloughie's brother who owned the local newspaper shop on Derby Road just off the Bramcote round-a-bout on the A52. Often when I went in the shop Cloughie was lurking around and often his dulcet tones could be heard in the back but I never got to talk with him. His brother had the same persona as Brian.

 

Forest fans idolized him and in John Robertson Forest had a player who was an absolute joy to watch. One of my favorite quotes from Cloughie was when he was asked why he'd not been appointed England manager to which he replied, "The FA were scared I would shake them up and they were absolutelly right".

 

 

Absolutely fasciniating and riveting beyond belief, we all want to know the detail of what went on in a shop hundrds of miles away decades ago, but still no opinions and comments on the 'Bungs' and whjat Rick Parry said about him, nor his Hillsborough stuff.

 

As I said before, many leaders of men, charismatic speakers were idolised by many, certainly before they knew what was about to happen or what was going on behind the scenes, and a lot of them 'shook things up' too.

[Paul6754]

Absolutely fasciniating and riveting beyond belief, we all want to know the detail of what went on in a shop hundrds of miles away decades ago, but still no opinions and comments on the 'Bungs' and whjat Rick Parry said about him, nor his Hillsborough stuff.

 

As I said before, many leaders of men, charismatic speakers were idolised by many, certainly before they knew what was about to happen or what was going on behind the scenes, and a lot of them 'shook things up' too.

 

It's a thread about Brian Clough and I will post what I like within forum rules, you don't have to read it or post about it.

 

You should be thoroughly ashamed of your post #16, comparing Brian Clough with Adolf Hitler, one was a football manager, the other a mass murderer, I doubt you know which one was which.

[Bea Smith]

It's a thread about Brian Clough and I will post what I like within forum rules, you don't have to read it or post about it.

Same goes for me and post 16 or any other, or do you wish one rule for you and one for others?

 

You should be thoroughly ashamed of your post #16, comparing Brian Clough with Adolf Hitler, one was a football manager, the other a mass murderer, I doubt you know which one was which

I don't need you to tell me what I can or cannot say, who I choose to illustrate a point (not a comparison- subtle difference) and you need to read the rules - attack the post - telling someone to be ashamed is attacking the poster. Nor is the remark about knowing which was which. OK sweetie ?

 

Finally, I still await comments on Clough's Hillsborough remarks and financial dealings, and can only assume that the lack of posts in reply indicates you and others think those things are ok or not important.

 

 

.

 

.............

[Little_Al]

I had the privilege of watching Brian Clough as a footballer and it was a great loss to the game that he had to finish playing early. As a manager, he was one of the best, certainly one of the greatest English managers ever. Please remember that he took on some of the "villains" of the game and turned them into vital parts of European Cup winning teams. He was probably a better manager with Peter Taylor at his side than on his own but no one can compare with his Derby and Forest achievements. Of course he had drink problems at the end and probably took a little money on the side as many managers did in those days when they were not paid as they are today. But I cannot understand why some people delight in running him down when we should be celebrating his achievements and learning from his skills.

[toyahw]

If he had managed England he could have used his 'Blatter'-like skills and we might have hosted and won another World Cup, but I wouldn't want one that was won that way.

Nothing like slagging off the dead who are not around defend themselves is there? Lucky we didn't win the world cup in the wrong way so you didn't get upset.

 

But hey, what did Clough ever achieve compared to Bea Smith? .

[Bea Smith]

Nothing like slagging off the dead who are not around defend themselves is there? Lucky we didn't win the world cup in the wrong way so you didn't get upset.

 

But hey, what did Clough ever achieve compared to Bea Smith? .

 

It isn't about what Bea Smith achieves, although if you mean me rather than the TV character I have achieved the distinction of never being accused of taking bribes or having the FA say that I would have been in court but for illness.Did you read the links ? Probably not.

 

I also have never resorted to homophobic bullying that was in many people's opinion a major factor in the suicide of Justin Fashanu - not quite gas chamber style, but then I don't suppose a dead ----- matters much to some people. Insert your own derogatory term in the dashes.

 

Nor have I upset people with Hillsborough remarks.

 

I'll not swap those things thanks, however patronising and demented an opposing post is.

 

Are you going to tell off anyone who dares to say a word about Jimmy Savile too - he is dead as well, so must we never say anything except what a wonderful person he was for all his charity work ? How bout Myra Hyndley - she's dead too so must we say she was a little angel ?

 

And please spare us the tat about comparing Clough to those two as I am not doing that - they are named to show how [][/i]selective your argument about someone being deceased is, and how hypocriticval that argument is. It is illogical and invalid.

 

Again, attack the post not the poster it says - but you'll be ok, they won't take action against the majority opinion on this thread. Sorry I can't agree just cos most people liked the man, but I happen to believe a bit of balance is necessary here.

 

And what has the World Cup got to do with it, I think that remark tells more about you than me.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Best clough quote for me when he was on a world cup TV panel..his "even educated bees do it" comment to mick channon...86 I think.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I had the privilege of watching Brian Clough as a footballer and it was a great loss to the game that he had to finish playing early.

 

His goalscoring record was phenomenal.Heard/read many a comment that he was deeply affected psychologically by his career ending when so young.

 

The Damned United film and book told a for me fascinating story.

[Bea Smith]

the words of football writer Jamie o'Keefe.....

 

Steven Gerrard’s 2006 autobiography ended with the dedication, “I play for Jon-Paul.”

 

It’s a reference to his 10-year-old cousin—surname Gilhooley—who was crushed to death in the Hillsborough tragedy. The boy would have been a man of 33 now, a little bit older than the Liverpool captain.

 

Some things are impossible to forget; others are even harder to forgive. The late Brian Clough wasn’t all bad. As a manager he straddled the categories of genius/egomaniac, but he was never the charming character some posthumous revisionism would suggest.

 

When his death was announced over the tannoy at the meeting of Manchester United and Liverpool at Old Trafford, eight years ago this weekend (September 20), a vast number of visiting supporters booed.

 

The reason? They remembered this heartless, callous contention in Clough’s eponymous 1994 memoir: “I will always remain convinced that those Liverpool fans who died were killed by Liverpool people.”

 

Hillsborough was a despicable disaster. Few ever accepted it was an accident waiting to happen, regardless of the dilapidated state of the Sheffield Wednesday stadium and the infamous fencing in of supporters.

 

But only a cretin—or Kelvin McKenzie—could have believed it was the cold-blooded manslaughter Clough made it out to be, adding a credibility of sorts to claims made by The Sun, establishment spin doctors and the police.

 

Everyone knew long before the recent damning revelations by the British Government that Liverpool supporters weren’t to blame.

 

As well as traducing the deceased in his book, “Old Big ’Ead” (Clough’s pet name for himself) again blamed allegedly inebriated fans during a book-plugging appearance on Clive Anderson’s BBC chat show.

 

“They were drunk. They killed their own,” Clough maintained, cold as ice. How hypocritical was that given what we knew, and know, of his struggle with alcoholism?; an addiction that precipitated his passing at the age of 69.

 

What made it worse, of course, is that Clough was manager of fellow FA Cup semi-finalists Nottingham Forrest, whom Liverpool were playing that day.

 

His views gave credence to pro-police sentiment and damaged the campaign for justice.

 

A statement at the time by three local councillors, who were members of the Hillsborough Working Group, unreservedly condemned Clough’s comments, which they branded a cynical attempt by the publishers to exploit the catastrophe.

 

They added that the remarks in question revealed Clough’s “total and pitiful factual ignorance of the real causes of the disaster.”

 

These, they said, were “the comprehensive failure of the Police control operation on the day, allied to the winder organisational failures.”

 

Unfortunately, it took another 18 years to have that version declared as fact.

 

In late 2001, after years of bereaved families begging him to say sorry and support their search for justice, Clough said he’d been “misinformed … I wasn’t trying to be vindictive or unsympathetic, but my opinion has altered over the years. It was never my intention to hurt anyone.”

 

Yet this belated retraction was only forthcoming after a threatened cross-Liverpool boycott of UK soccer magazine Four-Four-Two, which had just signed Clough as a star columnist.

 

Under intense pressure, its editor requested he publicly apologise; hence his printed desire to “make peace” with the Liverpool fans, stating: “I now accept that I went too far in giving my opinions about Hillsborough.”

 

Most Reds followers regarded his words as worthless. John Aldridge, the Merseyside-born Liverpool striker who contemplated quitting the game following the calamity, responded in the Liverpool Echo:

 

“Brian Clough waited far too long before apologising for his outrageous comments…Not only was it a scandalous, sickening suggestion, he also managed to cause further unnecessary pain and hurt.”

 

Aldridge added: “The pain his comments caused was magnified because of his stature in the game. He should have kept his mouth shut. Instead, he demonstrated a shocking lack of compassion and a complete failure to understand what really happened that day.

 

“He plummeted in my estimation after those comments. He may have apologised now, but it is far too late,” Aldridge asserted.

 

Indeed, it tells you a lot about the man—of whom former Spurs chief, Lord Alan Sugar of The Apprentice fame, said in court: “Cloughie likes a bung”—that he eventually bowed to professional pressures, rather than the heartfelt pleas on behalf of 96 utterly innocent victims.

 

Admittedly, he can’t defend himself. But Brian Clough didn’t spare Liverpool’s dead when it suited him.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I wonder if we will ever see anyone else take a newly promoted side to the title? Mind you as well as spotting genius in the likes of John Robertson he did buy the first million pound player..so he had cash to spend.

 

God knows what he would make of the sums paid now for average PL players.

[Bert Llewellyn]

A number of ex forest players do interview evenings in local pubs. The tales are hilarious and will have you in stitches. Stories about Clough and Larry Lloyd are priceless.

[For Us All]

"They say Rome wasn't built in a day,but then again I wasn't on that particular job"

 

Brian Clough

[Fosse69]

I wonder if we will ever see anyone else take a newly promoted side to the title? Mind you as well as spotting genius in the likes of John Robertson he did buy the first million pound player..so he had cash to spend.

 

God knows what he would make of the sums paid now for average PL players.

Highly unlikely, only Leicester in the last 20 years have topped it except for the Big 4, and that was in their 2nd season after a longish absence.