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While we have to do everything we can to get kids coming to the Vale, unfortunately I feel we are flogging a dead horse. As long there is Premier League football down the road for a competitive price we are going to be struggling. My nephew has started going to Stoke and it absolutely devastates me.

 

I've taken him Vale on several occasions but what can i offer when he has watched Stoke play the likes of Man United, Chelsea and Man City this season? Add that to the fact that the Premier League is shoved down these kids throats from every which angle and we've got no chance. The stronger they get the weaker we get.

 

Have a look at these two pages, its quite alarming:

 

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/porv.htm

 

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/stkc.htm

 

 

The last time Stoke were in the top flight for a prolongued period of time was 1964-1985 (bar a two year absence). Look at our attendances before that period and then during, they pretty much halve. Then look at our attendances after 1985- they more than double. Now of course this doesn't take into account our peaks and troughs during this period but its still very illuminating.

 

Since Stoke have been in the Premiership our attendances have been fairly steady around the 5000 mark, allowing for the odd dip or peak (such as the promotion season) but I wonder now whether we are beginning to see the effects of prolonged top flight football down the road. Being blunt, we are losing our older fans as will inevitably happen but are failing to replace them with the next generation. If history is to repeat itself we can expect the average to drop to around 4000/3500 circa the 1970s/early 1980s period. I hope not but its a great concern. Of course the fact that we have a lame duck chairman who perhaps isn't overly concerned about what the attendances will be a in a couple of years time makes it all the more frustrating as any schemes that may bring in new fans are going to be fairly low on his list of priorities.

 

Whilst I agree that we've got a thankless task what you've also got to consider is that Stoke have got nearly 22000 season ticket holders. If you include away fans, that leaves just approx 3000 seats available every week, I.e. Not many . There's 500,000 people living in and around North Staffordshire and although clearly not everyone is into football, there's a huge market there for people who simply can't get access to live football . I'm certain you could tap into that figure with a worthwhile experience on offer.

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Whilst I agree that we've got a thankless task what you've also got to consider is that Stoke have got nearly 22000 season ticket holders. If you include away fans, that leaves just approx 3000 seats available every week, I.e. Not many . There's 500,000 people living in and around North Staffordshire and although clearly not everyone is into football, there's a huge market there for people who simply can't get access to live football . I'm certain you could tap into that figure with a worthwhile experience on offer.

 

Absolutely!

We cannot simply accept that we have a premier league team on our doorstep. No need to just give up!

There is a market. And not just for kids.

We had record season ticket sales, certainly in my lifetime, on the back of Bill Bratt, a relegation to the 4th division and the worst Vale side for decades!!

 

Mr Smurthwaite goes on about the budget being slashed. Maybe if we had a decent marketing department we wouldnt have to slash the budget.

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Just my opinion.

I think what vale need is a man with a plan, we seem to run on crisis management and although getting to the championship is what fans like to hear its more of a target than a plan. We just seem to lurch from one crisis to another with no short/medium/long term strategy to improve the facilities, the experience, the ground, the support, the team or anything else for that matter.

Its a long slow process without someone investing many millions into a seemingly black hole. Its a slow process even if they do.

Its not just competition from down the D road we have to contend with, we have to compete with all the other things people can do on match days rather than spending a cold wet afternoon at vale park.... we dont just have to attract them we have to try to keep them... getting them to come is part of the problem, getting them to come back is a different problem altogether.

We have to make it as simple as possible for them to get to the ground, get into the ground, spend their money when in the ground and get away afterwards.

We have to make them feel safe, comfortable and entertained... Im not suggesting one on one stewarding, arm chairs or in game entertainment screens on chair backs... we have to offer them a decent view of the game, not stuck up a corner out of the way...

We know all this, we have known it for a long time.... it seems the ethos of "supporters buy season tickets, because thats what they do" is still alive and well at vale park.

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While we have to do everything we can to get kids coming to the Vale, unfortunately I feel we are flogging a dead horse. As long there is Premier League football down the road for a competitive price we are going to be struggling. My nephew has started going to Stoke and it absolutely devastates me.

 

I've taken him Vale on several occasions but what can i offer when he has watched Stoke play the likes of Man United, Chelsea and Man City this season? Add that to the fact that the Premier League is shoved down these kids throats from every which angle and we've got no chance. The stronger they get the weaker we get.

 

Have a look at these two pages, its quite alarming:

 

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/porv.htm

 

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/stkc.htm

 

 

The last time Stoke were in the top flight for a prolongued period of time was 1964-1985 (bar a two year absence). Look at our attendances before that period and then during, they pretty much halve. Then look at our attendances after 1985- they more than double. Now of course this doesn't take into account our peaks and troughs during this period but its still very illuminating.

 

Since Stoke have been in the Premiership our attendances have been fairly steady around the 5000 mark, allowing for the odd dip or peak (such as the promotion season) but I wonder now whether we are beginning to see the effects of prolonged top flight football down the road. Being blunt, we are losing our older fans as will inevitably happen but are failing to replace them with the next generation. If history is to repeat itself we can expect the average to drop to around 4000/3500 circa the 1970s/early 1980s period. I hope not but its a great concern. Of course the fact that we have a lame duck chairman who perhaps isn't overly concerned about what the attendances will be a in a couple of years time makes it all the more frustrating as any schemes that may bring in new fans are going to be fairly low on his list of priorities.

 

But its not just the on field product we are selling anymore.

The game has moved on from the 80s and people and families want to be entertained.

We cannot give the people the Man utds, Chelseas, Liverpools, Arsenals, Man Citys, Spurs, but we can give them a matchday experience other than the 90 minutes on the pitch!

 

Sadly, i must admit, times have changed and people want more than watching their team for 90 minutes. The "Hardcore" don't. They will be there. But sadly our hardcore are not getting any younger.

You only have to look around Vale Park on a matchday to see it represents an old folks home with a few children and then the one end of the paddock singing.

Its depressing.

The brand needs a totally different path to go down.

 

Leedsvaliant is spot on with what he says. And thats my point.

The club is not doing right by the business in getting folk come to the stadium.

The matchday experience for the casual supporter is woeful.

And the more we have little to play for every week, as has been the case this season, the more the fans will not bother and we will be down to the hardcore 3500.

 

Norman hasnt even implemented the smallest of things that Leedsvaliant has touched upon.

For a so called businessman that is poor and makes me wonder about his credentials even more.

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No, we ar'nt one of the dearest clubs outside the prem for pay on the day, not even the dearest in league 1. We ar'nt the cheapest though.

 

I saw something the other month, and Vale were something like the 12th dearest outside the Prem for the "cheapest" season tickets, and in the top 15 for dearest pay on the gate.

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Although I agree kids are the long term future it's the short term future that should be the priority. My career is sales with an emphasis on marketing. Target 5000 ran by Mike Aldridge was new and exciting and worked but that huge success was never capitalised on going forward. The negative relationship with local press and a chairman that struggles to keep his foot out of his mouth are a massive contribution to falling numbers as well as the neighbours down the road. the main asset we have is the current fan base and these people are in the best postition to attract new customers. The focus for st sales this year should have been a Bring a friend type promotion. Not done the numbers but perhaps 50 pound discount for the current season ticket holder and 50 pound discount for the friend introduced as a new or lapsed st holder. There is plenty we could and should be looking into

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I have read all of the comments on this thread and if we had an owner who listened then perhaps we would have one or two of these ideas on board unfortunately we haven't Norman Smurthwaite Esq only listens to one person and that is the one that looks back at him when he stands in front of a mirror.

Lets hope that a few of the caring fans are wrong and he does sell up (personally I think he does want out but on his crazy terms) and new owners come in who use good ideas and PR to get the club back on track. Wildes showed the way but unfortunately he was using other peoples money and not his own but that said he built up the buzz and those gates from the Burton and Northampton games must have paid much of the cash needed to balance the books regardless of what the owner says.

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Absolutely!

We cannot simply accept that we have a premier league team on our doorstep. No need to just give up!

There is a market. And not just for kids.

We had record season ticket sales, certainly in my lifetime, on the back of Bill Bratt, a relegation to the 4th division and the worst Vale side for decades!!

 

Mr Smurthwaite goes on about the budget being slashed. Maybe if we had a decent marketing department we wouldnt have to slash the budget.

 

Must admit I have to agree with most of the ideas that have been banded around on here regarding this and the opportunities we need to explore especially with all the empty seats we have and for the future of the club.

 

Our average range is clearly rising and it will be interesting to see how our new community project is progressing and what measures they are using to approach schools and boys and girls clubs such as Cubs, cadets, brownies etc.

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personally the best way to get bums on seats is get the product on the pitch worth watching, by winning games and being in the top six would do that then you can mess about doing fancy marketing.

 

Traditionally of course Vale fans are very apathetic and will only turn up when the team is doing well or we draw a plum in a cup draw, Shrewsbury who played Man Utd last week in front of 12000 will unfortunately be back down to 3500 next week

 

Such is life!!

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I have read all of the comments on this thread and if we had an owner who listened then perhaps we would have one or two of these ideas on board unfortunately we haven't Norman Smurthwaite Esq only listens to one person and that is the one that looks back at him when he stands in front of a mirror.

Lets hope that a few of the caring fans are wrong and he does sell up (personally I think he does want out but on his crazy terms) and new owners come in who use good ideas and PR to get the club back on track. Wildes showed the way but unfortunately he was using other peoples money and not his own but that said he built up the buzz and those gates from the Burton and Northampton games must have paid much of the cash needed to balance the books regardless of what the owner says.

 

Ideas are all well and good but what seems clear from the ashes of Wildes reign is that they have to be sustainable to the business and not cost crippling. What we need are ideas on here that are cost effective and generate interest amongst the young within a 20 mile or so radius.

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the main asset we have is the current fan base and these people are in the best postition to attract new customers. The focus for st sales this year should have been a Bring a friend type promotion. Not done the numbers but perhaps 50 pound discount for the current season ticket holder and 50 pound discount for the friend introduced as a new or lapsed st holder. There is plenty we could and should be looking into

 

I've been banging on about this for months / years. Can't believe someone in marketing hasn't explored it, you incentivise all parties including the club and make it a tangible benefit for all for the long term.

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Absolutely!

We cannot simply accept that we have a premier league team on our doorstep. No need to just give up!

There is a market. And not just for kids.

We had record season ticket sales, certainly in my lifetime, on the back of Bill Bratt, a relegation to the 4th division and the worst Vale side for decades!!

 

Mr Smurthwaite goes on about the budget being slashed. Maybe if we had a decent marketing department we wouldnt have to slash the budget.

I'm obviously going to champion marketing, but it's a vital component of any business. It should have been the first thing implemented when smurf took over. The basic premise is something like ' we want to increase the core average attendance by x%' and then you do some research and formulate a plan of marketing tactics to try and achieve your goal. It's basic business.

You can't just say ' please buy season tickets otherwise we'll have a substandard team '. There's so many other things to do and spend money on, more than ever before, but if you made attendance a true family day out, you might even encourage my wife and daughter to come along! As a family, we're often scratching our heads as to what to do of a weekend, vale should be tapping into the thousands of families just like mine to make it a real family day out.

It's insanity to just expect people to turn up or just use pricing as your only tactic.

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In the real world we have to accept that the likes of Port Vale and many, many other League Clubs will NEVER be a profit making business and that gives a clue to the reason why no billionaire or similar will want to take over such a Club as us.

 

Norman , as a non footballing man previous to Vale, may have mistakenly felt he could turn us round and make him a nice little pension earner. I'm convinced he's seen the light(at last) and is now frantically attempting to reason out how he can at least get his original money back. He is no different, with respect, to perhaps ALL others who might profess an interest in Vale and might wish to buy us out. Are they seriously going to make any profit out of the Club?

 

We can all talk about ideas of bringing fans into the Stadium and frankly ST and others on here have made some excellent suggestions but at the end of the day as Valiants should we not now accept that we are where we are and any dreams of Championship or beyond(!!) are just that, dreams?

 

I'm not being defeatist, just realistic to understand that after 30 years plus of supporting this great Club we financially have not a hope of sustaining any temporary success in reaching the Championship and building on that. Small Clubs like Vale will always have passion and desire to do better but in this harsh evil cash orientated Football World only the very rich will survive. Agreed there will be smaller Clubs who have a temporary taste of the Good Life but the vast majority will sink back down the Leagues and revert to being small Clubs again.

 

I'm depressing myself on here with my own honesty! Seriously fans where do you expect Vale to be in the next 10 to 20 years? Unless oil is found under the Railway stand and the owners put that money back into the coffers then we must resign ourselves to following and supporting our favourites in similar vein to that of my past lifetime. If we bob up and down between Championship and 1st Division maybe most of us will be happy in the knowledge that our small unfashionable Club has tried it's hardest and will accept that. To have any thoughts that we will mirror the rise of our Bet 365 neighbours is , in my mind pie in the sky.

 

Apologies to those of you that I might have shattered your illusions but I will still champion any useful, creative, sensible ides of dragging Vale into the world of the "Big Boys." I remain as devoted as ever and want continuing success for my club but I have to temper that with reality and hard facts of the massive financial constraints on Clubs similar to us.

 

I sincerely trust whoever takes over in the remainder of my lifetime have the insight and football business acumen required to promote Vale and gain whatever success we can but I unfortunately fear that we may be having like minded debates in the future. I'm now off to take a "happy pill" ready for tonights game!

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