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Hunt wants to sneak another one through.


PVTony

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I would like to go on record as saying American chicken, whether treated with a minute tiny fraction of chlorinated water or not to cost effectively kill harmful bacteria, is some of if not the safest and tastiest chicken on the planet.

 

As for the TTIP, a free trade agreement between the USA and Europe has been on the cards for years and years and is good for both continents, a market place of ca 800 million people is still less than the 1billion+ in each of China and India, two countries which certainly don't play by the rules when it comes to trade. Do you want your chicken to come from USA/Europe, China or India.

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I would like to go on record as saying American chicken, whether treated with a minute tiny fraction of chlorinated water or not to cost effectively kill harmful bacteria, is some of if not the safest and tastiest chicken on the planet.

 

As for the TTIP, a free trade agreement between the USA and Europe has been on the cards for years and years and is good for both continents, a market place of ca 800 million people is still less than the 1billion+ in each of China and India, two countries which certainly don't play by the rules when it comes to trade. Do you want your chicken to come from USA/Europe, China or India.

 

I don't think that you realize the dangers of the TTIP agreement being implemented. It will be good for the big businesses, especially the ones in U.S.A.

If any goverment under this agreement should pass any laws or regulations that will have a detrimental effect upon their company profits they can take the said governments to court. Politician's would have to tread very carefully so as not to offend such companies.

 

We certainly don't want U.S. mega companies running the NHS. People would not be able to afford their vastly inflated charges and would have to take out costly insurances or suffer.

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Sorry Whotobe. I only know what I have copied from what 38 Degrees have sent to me.

 

38 Degrees send out petitions on anything that a member deems to be unjust such slavery which is still prevelent in some countries.

 

A person with compassion and a heart to make wrong doing right, (such as yourself) may be interested in joining the group which has many thousands of members.

 

So you are protesting about something but you dont know what it is, and you want others to join you? Blind leading the blind or what?

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I would like to go on record as saying American chicken, whether treated with a minute tiny fraction of chlorinated water or not to cost effectively kill harmful bacteria, is some of if not the safest and tastiest chicken on the planet.

 

As for the TTIP, a free trade agreement between the USA and Europe has been on the cards for years and years and is good for both continents, a market place of ca 800 million people is still less than the 1billion+ in each of China and India, two countries which certainly don't play by the rules when it comes to trade. Do you want your chicken to come from USA/Europe, China or India.

 

No agreement which lets corporate greed rule over government regulation or consumer rights is a good deal. Take the money part away from it and people would rather elect a fairer democracy any day of the week.

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So you are protesting about something but you dont know what it is, and you want others to join you? Blind leading the blind or what?

 

Have you not read all of the posts Kevin?

It's about hunt wanting to quietly push a motion through that will lead to a possble sell out of the NHS.

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Hunt is not the best choice of minister for health, he's a career politician with little thought or compassion for anyone below his own status. But ministers of all ilks are beholden to the treasury so maybe I'm being a little harsh on Hunt although if arrogance was a virtue he would be a most virtuous minister.Now about Chinese chicken, tasty and nutritious at a supermarket near you and has been for a number of years and chicken from Thailand although the cats enjoy that and it hasn't done them any harm yet.

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I don't think that you realize the dangers of the TTIP agreement being implemented. It will be good for the big businesses, especially the ones in U.S.A.

If any goverment under this agreement should pass any laws or regulations that will have a detrimental effect upon their company profits they can take the said governments to court. Politician's would have to tread very carefully so as not to offend such companies.

 

We certainly don't want U.S. mega companies running the NHS. People would not be able to afford their vastly inflated charges and would have to take out costly insurances or suffer.

 

If it's good for big business then that's a positive thing, it means more jobs will be created in Europe and the USA. Why should it be especially good for USA businesses, there are many mega corporations in Europe that are the largest in their sector, eg BASF is the largest chemical company in the world and there are many UK companies which generate a huge if not the largest percentage of their profit in the USA eg Glaxo.

 

Companies can take governments to court now and in the future, it doesn't mean they will be successful.

 

I don't think you should worry about the future of the NHS in the UK, it will always exist alongside private health care as it does now.

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No agreement which lets corporate greed rule over government regulation or consumer rights is a good deal.

 

Never voted conservative in my life but I understand that successful business creates wealth, jobs and prosperity and drives creativity and invention which benefits everyone in the world. Too much government regulation creates stagnant economies, misery and lack of opportunity. Compare Western Europe with Eastern Europe under the Russians.

 

Take the money part away from it and people would rather elect a fairer democracy any day of the week.

 

You mean like in Russia. Successful enterprise creates money for the under privileged in society, it just needs to be shared more equally.

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Never voted conservative in my life but I understand that successful business creates wealth, jobs and prosperity and drives creativity and invention which benefits everyone in the world. Too much government regulation creates stagnant economies, misery and lack of opportunity. Compare Western Europe with Eastern Europe under the Russians.

 

People in East Germany were far better off than many in Spain, Portugal, Greece at the time with fixed low rents, guaranteed employment, some civil liberties but no choice in newspaper or TV. Most of those who wanted to get to the west either had family there or wanted to have their education and training paid for by the DDR but then earn higher salaries as doctors etc in west Germany.

Cuba, despite being attacked, blockaded, sanctioned and refused normal trade by the USA has one of the very best healthcare systems in the world, and provided far more help initially than the USA did in the west African Ebola crisis.

Things are not always so clear cut, there are other measures of civilised behaviour than monetary gain. Not everyone has profiteering and making money at the expense of others as their main goal in life.

 

You mean like in Russia. Successful enterprise creates money for the under privileged in society, it just needs to be shared more equally

Agreed. I have to say though Paul that as someone who is obviously well educated and very intelligent, you are very cynical about anything even slightly socialist but so trusting on things like the TTIP and food safety, there is very strong concern (and that is putting it mildly) about some of the things you would be making the rst of us buy into - like chlorinated chicken and GMO foods. Nobody is saying you shouldn't eat them if you want, but what you are proposing, what TTIP means, is that ALL of us will have to - and have no choice.

There are many examples of where 'if its good for big business, its a good thing' is just not true, and lots of them are in the realm of public safety and health or environment - oil spills, look at BP off the coast of the US, just one tiny example..

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You mean like in Russia. Successful enterprise creates money for the under privileged in society, it just needs to be shared more equally.

 

Take away democracy then you take away workers rights and workers ability to get paid a proper wage. You also take away consumer rights by being in TTIP as the companies will dictate what rights anybody can have whether it be buying off those companies or taking action in respect products that these companies make.

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People in East Germany were far better off than many in Spain, Portugal, Greece at the time with fixed low rents, guaranteed employment, some civil liberties but no choice in newspaper or TV. Most of those who wanted to get to the west either had family there or wanted to have their education and training paid for by the DDR but then earn higher salaries as doctors etc in west Germany.

The majority of people in East German had no freedom, no choice, no money and little food and were controlled by State and Stasi, the only people with none of that were the E German Politicians. It could only be someone who's lived in the west that could claim life in Eastern Europe under the Russian's was better. It's total fallacy that the only people who wanted to escape from E Germany were those that had family etc in the west, why was a wall built, answer, 'cause many if not most would have fled to the west and not only East Germans.

 

Cuba, despite being attacked, blockaded, sanctioned and refused normal trade by the USA has one of the very best healthcare systems in the world, and provided far more help initially than the USA did in the west African Ebola crisis.

 

Cuba does train a disproportionate number of doctors at the expense of many other national needs eg infrastructure and a decent living wage, the country is rife with prostitution. It has a good healthcare system but only because it can import techniques and drugs developed by creativity and invention driven by capitalism in the west, doctor's are generally rendered useless without the availability of medicines and anaesthetics. The number of effective medicines discovered and developed in the communist world is zero, ask yourself why? and that includes Russia which has a tremendous science base.

 

Things are not always so clear cut, there are other measures of civilised behaviour than monetary gain. Not everyone has profiteering and making money at the expense of others as their main goal in life.

 

I have never posted that monetary gain is the the only measure of civilized behavior but if there is one thing that is clear cut from the last 100 years it is that communism and far left politics are a dead end street and lead to poverty, misery and worse.

 

I have to say though Paul that as someone who is obviously well educated and very intelligent, you are very cynical about anything even slightly socialist but so trusting on things like the TTIP and food safety, there is very strong concern (and that is putting it mildly) about some of the things you would be making the rst of us buy into - like chlorinated chicken and GMO foods. Nobody is saying you shouldn't eat them if you want, but what you are proposing, what TTIP means, is that ALL of us will have to - and have no choice.

There are many examples of where 'if its good for big business, its a good thing' is just not true, and lots of them are in the realm of public safety and health or environment - oil spills, look at BP off the coast of the US, just one tiny example..

 

I am not cynical about anything even slightly socialist, in fact I'm center left in my views but realize that to have social medicine and welfare someone has to pay for it and that ain't going to be anything 100% government driven.

 

TTIP is good for trade, trade is what drives the wheels hence I'm in favor. As for food safety, too many people are taken in by the scaremongers, franken foods, chlorinated chicken etc, emotive phrases. For those of us who live in the west there will always be a choice of non-GMO and GMO foods a plenty, for those living in less affluent countries GMO foods are the way forward to feed people, decrease hunger and in some cases treat disease, as far as I'm aware there have been no instances of toxicity of GMO foods cf to non-GMO in the general population. As for chlorinated chicken it's too daft a phrase to even comment on, you do realize that tap water in the UK contains minute levels of "chlorine" to reduce the quantity of harmful bacteria so it can be piped to homes and drunk safely, do you want this "chlorine" removed resulting in cholera, dysentry and going to the well to get water in the UK.

 

There are many more example where if it's good for big business it's good for the country and the world benefits, when a government is faced with a choice of politics or economics the later usually holds sway.

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Take away democracy then you take away workers rights and workers ability to get paid a proper wage. You also take away consumer rights by being in TTIP as the companies will dictate what rights anybody can have whether it be buying off those companies or taking action in respect products that these companies make.

 

Who's posted about taking away democracy, TTIP is about creating free trade between Europe and the USA, I believe it was a European initiatve. TTIP is about creating multi lateral economic growth, hence jobs and salaries so people can feed their families, have opportunity and choice. Companies don't dictate, customers and competition do.

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The majority of people in East German had no freedom, no choice, no money and little food and were controlled by State and Stasi, the only people with none of that were the E German Politicians. It could only be someone who's lived in the west that could claim life in Eastern Europe under the Russian's was better. It's total fallacy that the only people who wanted to escape from E Germany were those that had family etc in the west, why was a wall built, answer, 'cause many if not most would have fled to the west and not only East Germans.

 

Did you ever visit East Germany ? I did, a dozen times - mainly because a good friend I used to work with went to live in West berlin in the mid-1970s, stayed and married and raised a family there, and I went to (West)Berlin many times to visit as it was a place with endless history and fascinations. One of which was the ability to cross into East Berlin, an experience which made me interested in seeing more.

 

So the next time I was going to West Berlin, I broke the journey in East GermanY (Magdeburg) - on my own, an act which some people I knew described as madness. My experience - with no contact with any official sources, just meeting people - was a well fed, generally fairly happy city where the people I met were reasonably happy with their lot - many had cars, all had televisions, no shops had shortages, prices were tiny and fixed even compared to wages, sports and health facilities were superb.

 

Yes, the telephone in my hotel did ring twice in the night, and I am sure I was 'kept an eye on' but other than having the car searched fairly carefully (but very politely) on the way into the DDR then out again at the West berlin border, I cant say anything bothered or restricted me.

 

I also went for drives into the Harz mountains, went into fantastic little cafes and visited the medieval town of Wernigerode, where there was also no shortage of anything and everyone went about their business in a reasonable way.

 

People I met did say they wish they could get Western goods, particularly cigarettes and some alcoholic products and of course fashionable items and 'pop culture' goods, but the visit and subsequent ones and odd trips across into East Berlin convinced me that life was far from miserable, not really any worse than life in an English northern town in the late 1970s except for 'free press' etc.

 

Since re-unification there have been several polls where large numbers of people have wished the event had not happened, the West Germans and Americans spent huge amounts - billions of dollars - undermining the East german economy and on propaganda to undermine that state. One example was that the 2 currencies were officially 1:1 exchange rate yet you could buy East German marks in West Berlin BANKS - not on street corners - at a rate of 4 for 1 and many people smuggled them in and this led to economic problems.

 

Cuba does train a disproportionate number of doctors at the expense of many other national needs eg infrastructure and a decent living wage, the country is rife with prostitution. It has a good healthcare system but only because it can import techniques and drugs developed by creativity and invention driven by capitalism in the west, doctor's are generally rendered useless without the availability of medicines and anaesthetics. The number of effective medicines discovered and developed in the communist world is zero, ask yourself why? and that includes Russia which has a tremendous science base.

 

Prostitution in Cuba is mainly only found in Havana, and is at a far lower rate than in most large US cities, a fact borne out by STD and AIDS rates in Cuba which are far lower than most countries if not all, in Latin America and certainly than in the US. How can Cuba import medical stuff from the US? The country is far from perfect but has given priority to health and has done extremely well when the most powerful bully in eternity has been trying to crush it for 50 years.

 

I have never posted that monetary gain is the the only measure of civilized behavior but if there is one thing that is clear cut from the last 100 years it is that communism and far left politics are a dead end street and lead to poverty, misery and worse.

 

It didn't in Cuba and East Germany, and it may well not if liberalised to 'Gorbachov'-type levels but not undermined by the US destabalising and threatening it so that so much had to be spent to defend against Reagan for example.

 

I am not cynical about anything even slightly socialist, in fact I'm center left in my views but realize that to have social medicine and welfare someone has to pay for it and that ain't going to be anything 100% government driven.

 

TTIP is good for trade, trade is what drives the wheels hence I'm in favor. As for food safety, too many people are taken in by the scaremongers, franken foods, chlorinated chicken etc, emotive phrases. For those of us who live in the west there will always be a choice of non-GMO and GMO foods a plenty, for those living in less affluent countries GMO foods are the way forward to feed people, decrease hunger and in some cases treat disease, as far as I'm aware there have been no instances of toxicity of GMO foods cf to non-GMO in the general population. As for chlorinated chicken it's too daft a phrase to even comment on, you do realize that tap water in the UK contains minute levels of "chlorine" to reduce the quantity of harmful bacteria so it can be piped to homes and drunk safely, do you want this "chlorine" removed resulting in cholera, dysentry and going to the well to get water in the UK.

 

I disagree with your views which are unfortunately coming across as smug and dangerous - there are dozens of studies that suggest there may be serious problems with GMO foods and chlorinated meat. The tap water argument does not hold up as the levels are minuscule in tap water- one could say arsenic is ok because it exists in apple pips - people wont be tricked by this deception of scale for ever.

 

You say there will always be choice of GMO or not- HOW SO ? when part of TTIP is to remove labelling which tells us which foods contain it - and as you are probably well aware, the general public is not as aware as it should be on food buying and will not check labels even if there is a choice.

 

People will believe that if it is on sale it is safe, and that just isn't true - many items are banned in Europe but allowed in the US, like additives, E numbers and synthetic chemicals in food. We don't want these at any price.

 

 

There are many more example where if it's good for big business it's good for the country and the world benefits, when a government is faced with a choice of politics or economics the later usually holds sway.

 

There are some, but this does not mean all. You cant trust every large company, look at Monsanto who are so profit-driven that they are willing to risk public health with products like Roundup which has been so heavily linked to cancer that it is a serious danger.

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