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Smurf on P & G ?


PVTony

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As I see it, I am looking at parting with £650 for 2 season tickets in the next 5/6 weeks.

Where else would you find a business trying to sell you something for that amount of money with all the bitching/ flannel and negativity?

 

The only 'pull' is my love and loyalty to the club, how much is that worth?

 

 

I agree, mate.

 

My love for the Club(not individuals/manager/owner etc) will see me purchasing season tickets for as long as I am fit and able to attend. I maybe in a minority there but do believe Vale have a hard core of a couple of thousand similar to me who will always support the lads, come what may. It's in our blood.

 

I do however worry about our owner's ability to see what makes Clubs **** and what is really needed to attract fans and paying customers to Vale Park. It's obvious we need to cut the cloth accordingly so we never get into the financial mess of the past few years BUT also for the future of Vale we have to know what will get floaters/casuals/families/ kids etc into the ground.

 

Vale can rely on, as I say, about a couple of thousand season ticket holders minimum every season now and I would have no reservations for deals/cut price POD/blocks/ etc to attempt to get as many fans in as possible even if that meant decreasing the actual value of the season ticket I purchase. I know I'm lucky enough to afford to pay up front for the whole season, even though I may not attend every home match(me and my missus do like our holidays too) but in the Potteries, possibly even more so than any where else people do not have the disposable income at their grasp to fork out big prices to watch a Football match.

 

I do wonder if Norm, bless him, has honestly grasped how hard it is to get Vale full or how the game is so different from a "normal" business venture. Football fans need cajoling and actually need to feel wanted even if the fare on the pitch is poor and unentertaining. I don't believe it's rocket science! Attract casuals/floaters/ people who cannot afford to go most games by offering them sensible alternative deals. I repeat I feel that the majority of true Valiants would not blink if offers were forthcoming to get people in and it meant those offers actually undercut or equalled the value a season ticket has to it's owner. We all want the best for our Club. I do by buying a season ticket, knowing it adds to the budget available to the Manager to help us progress. Many other people out there would come to our games IF the price was right/ deals were struck to get families and kids in the habit.

 

Norman's background of business ventures surely must mean he could now see a PR assault on the public will gradually change people's perceptions of Vale? Whatever it takes financially now to blitz the people and sit down and really think a strategy out to attract fans to our brilliant Club must repay us multi times over for the future?

 

We've been promoted, we've consolidated ourselves as a respectable Team in League 1. NOW is the time to invest in real thought to keep us interested and attract more and more paying customers. Come on Norm can't you see opportunities are going astray here and it's got to be for the coming season that we try so hard to establish long term committed fans for the future?

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"He added: "I know one thing which has unsettled some fans is the issue about the stadium.

 

"That took place when we bought the club. There is no money being paid by the club to anyone in relation to the stadium.

 

"That only triggers in the event that the owner of the club is different to the owner of the stadium.

 

"Then a lease kicks in and there's a payment between the two parties.""

 

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Port-Vale-Norman-Smurthwaite-believes-fans/story-20839582-detail/story.html#ixzz2wgPwF7pV

 

Norman speaks again. Today's article in The Sentinel. The above quote worries me somewhat.

 

If he were to sell the club, I think he may have a ready made pension plan.

 

...I agree. As soon as he can get a reasonable/acceptable price, I believe he will sell the club, retain the ground and start charging us rent - at a rate decided by himself. All he has done by splitting the ground from the club is add a football ground to his portfolio of 60 odd rental houses that he allegedly owns in Coventry. We could well be at the thin end of a very nasty wedge.

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People keep saying fans can book tickets in advance on line, but how will this work when the scanners are gone? Will it be a case of buy one, photocopy it ten times and eleven get in for the price of one?

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"He added: "I know one thing which has unsettled some fans is the issue about the stadium.

 

"That took place when we bought the club. There is no money being paid by the club to anyone in relation to the stadium.

 

"That only triggers in the event that the owner of the club is different to the owner of the stadium.

 

"Then a lease kicks in and there's a payment between the two parties.""

 

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Port-Vale-Norman-Smurthwaite-believes-fans/story-20839582-detail/story.html#ixzz2wgPwF7pV

 

Norman speaks again. Today's article in The Sentinel. The above quote worries me somewhat.

 

If he were to sell the club, I think he may have a ready made pension plan.

The club can be sold with or without the ground, with various options such as for a future sale of the ground, at an agreed price after a few years. No point in worrying about it, it will be up to the new owner to sort it.

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So long as it's an easy system which enables customers to order and pay for their tickets in advance the pay on the day system ahould be negated. This if possible needs an order and print at home option, ticket office to be open after home games for at least an hour and ring, pay and reserve options.

 

I think he's put the POD prices up for few reasons;

1. So he's aware of stewarding/police costs

2. The club can budget for ancillary spends and other staffing levels

3. Possibly given the issues with hooligans and racism to dissuade such people he's making it harder for them to plan. This in turn should help the family atmosphere within the ground on match days.

 

He does need to look at family packages, small block season tickets and a bring a mate incentive along with other unique discounts and benefits.

Agreed, I would also consider a membership scheme with discounted tickets. We are in a difficult situation, competing for the fans of tomorrow, against a TV funded club who will make the best use of their spell in the Prem, to spoil our future, as I am sure we would do.

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People keep saying fans can book tickets in advance on line, but how will this work when the scanners are gone? Will it be a case of buy one, photocopy it ten times and eleven get in for the price of one?
Pay online and collect would appear con proof if no other system available.

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The club can be sold with or without the ground, with various options such as for a future sale of the ground, at an agreed price after a few years. No point in worrying about it, it will be up to the new owner to sort it.

 

Out of all peoples gripes with Norman, this is the one thing that worries me, and I'm genuinely astounded that it's nothing more than a footnote.

 

Splitting the ground from the club makes us a less attractive proposition to potential suitors surely? The article says we aren't paying rent at the moment, but if the club is sold without it, then the rent will come into play. Wont that affect the playing budget? It will certainly be an annual 6 figure bill that we currently don't have now. The money to pay it will have to be found somewhere. To me, there is absolutely no benefit to Port Vale in splitting the ground from the club. There is however, to the owner of the Ground.

 

Norman always said that when he left us, it would be with no debt and in a better position than when he bought us. I have no reason to disbelieve that yet, but if he does sell us without the ground we will be in debt to him straight away (the ground rent) and Port Vale not owning the ground is not a better position than Port Vale owning the ground, which ever way you look at it. Only time will tell I guess, whether he is a man off his word.

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People keep saying fans can book tickets in advance on line, but how will this work when the scanners are gone? Will it be a case of buy one, photocopy it ten times and eleven get in for the price of one?

 

You can book theatre,concert tickets online / by phone and collect at the box office.Why not footie grounds?

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...I agree. As soon as he can get a reasonable/acceptable price' date=' I believe he will sell the club, retain the ground and start charging us rent - at a rate decided by himself. All he has done by splitting the ground from the club is add a football ground to his portfolio of 60 odd rental houses that he allegedly owns in Coventry. We could well be at the thin end of a very nasty wedge.[/quote']

 

I'm afraid. Very afraid. Our chairman has no loyalty to our neck of the woods. Fall out not too far away.

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Out of all peoples gripes with Norman, this is the one thing that worries me, and I'm genuinely astounded that it's nothing more than a footnote.

 

Splitting the ground from the club makes us a less attractive proposition to potential suitors surely? The article says we aren't paying rent at the moment, but if the club is sold without it, then the rent will come into play. Wont that affect the playing budget? It will certainly be an annual 6 figure bill that we currently don't have now. The money to pay it will have to be found somewhere. To me, there is absolutely no benefit to Port Vale in splitting the ground from the club. There is however, to the owner of the Ground.

 

Norman always said that when he left us, it would be with no debt and in a better position than when he bought us. I have no reason to disbelieve that yet, but if he does sell us without the ground we will be in debt to him straight away (the ground rent) and Port Vale not owning the ground is not a better position than Port Vale owning the ground, which ever way you look at it. Only time will tell I guess, whether he is a man off his word.

 

Sad isnt it....

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Out of all peoples gripes with Norman, this is the one thing that worries me, and I'm genuinely astounded that it's nothing more than a footnote.

 

Splitting the ground from the club makes us a less attractive proposition to potential suitors surely? The article says we aren't paying rent at the moment, but if the club is sold without it, then the rent will come into play. Wont that affect the playing budget? It will certainly be an annual 6 figure bill that we currently don't have now. The money to pay it will have to be found somewhere. To me, there is absolutely no benefit to Port Vale in splitting the ground from the club. There is however, to the owner of the Ground.

 

Norman always said that when he left us, it would be with no debt and in a better position than when he bought us. I have no reason to disbelieve that yet, but if he does sell us without the ground we will be in debt to him straight away (the ground rent) and Port Vale not owning the ground is not a better position than Port Vale owning the ground, which ever way you look at it. Only time will tell I guess, whether he is a man off his word.

I agree 100% Cheeky. Splitting the club from the ground is a path to destruction. Smurthwaite of all people should know this being a Coventry man but I really don't think that he actually gives a 'stuff' about Port Vale. Even if he does he isn't planning to put his hand into his pocket, perhaps if he did all that he would find would be his hanky. I'm sorry but I don't trust Smurf a jot.

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...I agree. As soon as he can get a reasonable/acceptable price' date=' I believe he will sell the club, retain the ground and start charging us rent - at a rate decided by himself. All he has done by splitting the ground from the club is add a football ground to his portfolio of 60 odd rental houses that he allegedly owns in Coventry. We could well be at the thin end of a very nasty wedge.[/quote']

 

I find it unbelievable that this seems to have gone under the radar with so many folk.

 

The "Happy Clappers" must be in denial.......And I agree 100%, that this could well be at the thin end of a very nasty wedge

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I agree 100% Cheeky. Splitting the club from the ground is a path to destruction. Smurthwaite of all people should know this being a Coventry man but I really don't think that he actually gives a 'stuff' about Port Vale. Even if he does he isn't planning to put his hand into his pocket, perhaps if he did all that he would find would be his hanky. I'm sorry but I don't trust Smurf a jot.

 

Ditto old pal. You good?

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Out of all peoples gripes with Norman, this is the one thing that worries me, and I'm genuinely astounded that it's nothing more than a footnote.

 

Splitting the ground from the club makes us a less attractive proposition to potential suitors surely? The article says we aren't paying rent at the moment, but if the club is sold without it, then the rent will come into play. Wont that affect the playing budget? It will certainly be an annual 6 figure bill that we currently don't have now. The money to pay it will have to be found somewhere. To me, there is absolutely no benefit to Port Vale in splitting the ground from the club. There is however, to the owner of the Ground.

 

Norman always said that when he left us, it would be with no debt and in a better position than when he bought us. I have no reason to disbelieve that yet, but if he does sell us without the ground we will be in debt to him straight away (the ground rent) and Port Vale not owning the ground is not a better position than Port Vale owning the ground, which ever way you look at it. Only time will tell I guess, whether he is a man off his word.

 

Surely it's a case of 'buyer beware' ?. In my mind, anyone thinking of buying the club would surely want to own the ground, if not then they would be effectively digging their own grave.

There are a number of ways of looking at this in my opinion :

1) Norman pulls the plug and the club goes bankrupt - hopefully someone buys the club but not the ground, thus leaving Norman with a chance of receiving his money back via ground rent.

2) Norman sells the club for a low cost sale and again uses the ground rent as his top-up.

3) Norman sells the entire club with ground for a price that gets him his money back, or at a loss and takes what he can get.

4) Norman sells the club to one buyer, and the land to another.

 

 

I am sure there are plenty more possibilities, perhaps someone will come in as a partner ?

Also, where does the council covenant come into play with regards the ground being used for football/sport?

 

In my opinion there is only ONE scenario I want Norman to play out :

Give Micky a contract, buy players who can improve the club, win more games, get more fans, get promotion, make a profit and carry on doing so.

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I fear that next season s/t sales will be down on this season and overall average attendances will be lower. None season ticket fans will be more selective on which games to watch depending the opposing teams because of the higher prices.

 

It will be difficult for the manager to improve the playing squad with a deceasing budget. So I very much fear that the Vale will be in a similar position as the one that Crewe are in this season.

 

I completely agree.

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Surely it's a case of 'buyer beware' ?. In my mind, anyone thinking of buying the club would surely want to own the ground, if not then they would be effectively digging their own grave.

There are a number of ways of looking at this in my opinion :

1) Norman pulls the plug and the club goes bankrupt - hopefully someone buys the club but not the ground, thus leaving Norman with a chance of receiving his money back via ground rent.

2) Norman sells the club for a low cost sale and again uses the ground rent as his top-up.

3) Norman sells the entire club with ground for a price that gets him his money back, or at a loss and takes what he can get.

4) Norman sells the club to one buyer, and the land to another.

 

 

I am sure there are plenty more possibilities, perhaps someone will come in as a partner ?

Also, where does the council covenant come into play with regards the ground being used for football/sport?

 

In my opinion there is only ONE scenario I want Norman to play out :

Give Micky a contract, buy players who can improve the club, win more games, get more fans, get promotion, make a profit and carry on doing so.

 

Great post Fred.

 

Not sure we will be buying any players but subject to matching last seasons ST sales of 4,300 it appears we will have a decent budget and a spring board on which to push on.

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