Stand up if you love the Vale....

[Birdy]

Mellor - there is no reason why you cant sing anywhere - so there is no age limit.

 

The pricing as I understand it in some German grounds is that a standing area is reserved for young people at low prices - this encourages them to get a lifetime love of the club. once a certain age is reached they are expected to use another part of the ground at full price.

 

for instance the old family area at the Vale could have the seats taken out and used for that purpose.

 

One of the advantages of a standing family area is that young fidgety kids can stroll around making there own games up when bored during the match. as i am sure many of the older posters can remember doing at the vale when they were very young and went with their parent.

With all due respect Dave that's bullpoo. There well may be fan clubs such as the Fanladen at St Pauli where anyone can get cheaper tickets to the Sudcurve and Ultra areas but I am unaware there is any age specific areas in any German grounds? The German game is ten times that of the English game now. Football how it should be, affordable, exciting, having a beer and a scoff, loads of atmosphere, safe terracing and seating and no mass hysteria when someone shouts 'bugger' or someone steps over a yellow one sending security into meltdown.

 

A terraced area at the front off the Bycars is a win-win for all. For all those who are use to sitting can still do so there's little argument against. At the age of 42 I would still prefer to stand on a terrace unless it was packed and I had my kids with me.

 

Santa, the Lorne street has always looked odd has it's never been completed, adding a terrace ain't going to change that.

 

It's about time we as fans took the game back from the TV companies and the bourgeois.

[Tone]

With all due respect, is that due to your age ? I feel I can post this as I would estimate I am close to the same age myself, and in any event would have to sit rather than stand due to mobility issues at the moment. But we should consider younger fans who want the excitement of jumping up and down, going a bit mad when Vale score / win.

It's all about choice - you and I and many others would still have the vast majority of the ground to choose a seat, but a standing area would be great for some who have never experienced the joy of standing to watch Vale (at home, anyway).

As it is now, there is no choice.

 

I was making the point in full disclosure, not because I was objecting to standing being made available. I may be old but I can still stand, thank God.

 

My main point was that, for the club right now, it makes no sense if the concrete has to be ripped up yet again. It is more important to finish the RW suite which would be a source of extra revenue. Even the completion of seats in the Lorne Street should have priority, given that they would pay for themselves with just one full house (FA Cup?).

[Vital Spark]

With all due respect Dave that's bullpoo. There well may be fan clubs such as the Fanladen at St Pauli where anyone can get cheaper tickets to the Sudcurve and Ultra areas but I am unaware there is any age specific areas in any German grounds? The German game is ten times that of the English game now. Football how it should be, affordable, exciting, having a beer and a scoff, loads of atmosphere, safe terracing and seating and no mass hysteria when someone shouts 'bugger' or someone steps over a yellow one sending security into meltdown.

 

A terraced area at the front off the Bycars is a win-win for all. For all those who are use to sitting can still do so there's little argument against. At the age of 42 I would still prefer to stand on a terrace unless it was packed and I had my kids with me.

 

Santa, the Lorne street has always looked odd has it's never been completed, adding a terrace ain't going to change that.

 

It's about time we as fans took the game back from the TV companies and the bourgeois.

 

But you're referring to the big German clubs in the Bundesliga, not the small clubs in Liga 3 which is a more compatible example, where they struggle to achieve average crowds above 5000. Converting the Bycars to a terrace would probably bump its capacity up to 7000 which would look stupid with 400 wannabe German Ultras huddled together in the cold. Or on the flip side what if the Bycars proved an ultimate success and everyone chose to use it, leaving the rest of the ground completely empty, killing the already fragile atmosphere. We should be careful what we wish for and I hope Smurf gets the bigger picture and opinion before making a move, instead of listening to a few on the internet and twitter.

 

We have far more important things to spend our money on. A standing terrace won't attract new fans, but a successful and entertaining team will.

[Vital Spark]

If general opinion supports the return of a standing area then the Railway Paddock would be most successful area to convert due to the availability of beer and it's proximity to the away end. It would be a waste in the Bycars.

[Birdy]

But you're referring to the big German clubs in the Bundesliga, not the small clubs in Liga 3 which is a more compatible example, where they struggle to achieve average crowds above 5000. Converting the Bycars to a terrace would probably bump its capacity up to 7000 which would look stupid with 400 wannabe German Ultras huddled together in the cold. Or on the flip side what if the Bycars proved an ultimate success and everyone chose to use it, leaving the rest of the ground completely empty, killing the already fragile atmosphere. We should be careful what we wish for and I hope Smurf gets the bigger picture and opinion before making a move, instead of listening to a few on the internet and twitter.

 

We have far more important things to spend our money on. A standing terrace won't attract new fans, but a successful and entertaining team will.

 

I have been to matches at pretty much every level from BL down to Oberliga (level 5) and it works okay there so why not here? I am not saying that we should be spending millions on converting, I am speaking ideologically. It wouldn't cost a great deal to convert if funding was achievable. I some traditionalists don't like the term ultra but I'm using it in a singing, flag waving sense.

[jude]

good idea it would be a cheaper way of finishing the stand

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Smurf has just tweeted the following:

 

Norman Smurthwaite ‏@smurfpvfc 2m

Valiants .What would be the view of converting the Bycars to all standing. We have been approached by FL for Clubs input SMURF

 

Personally, I'd be all for it. I used to love standing in The Bycars, back in the day.

 

Personally I would be all for it but it will take a change in the law to bring it about and that takes years,I am sure the crushing hazard it would cause would lead to standing area,s being nothing like the terracing of the past with reduced small capacity area,s we would also need to get it past the council Safety Advisory Group which I can't see happening.

[Tone]

It wouldn't cost a great deal to convert if funding was achievable.

 

How do you know it wouldn't cost "a great deal"? Funding? From where?

 

Moreover, what would be the financial benefit to the club?

[Houston Valiant]

I've had some good experiences in standing areas but also some scary and, looking back, potentially very dangerous ones. I remember one particular first division game against Everton where the overcrowding was so bad it was truly frightening. So I'd like to know more about the safety rules and the cost of making it safe. With our finances though, I guess it's a non-starter. To be honest, I'd rather spend money on players or improving the club's ability to generate extra income for the long term.

 

With the German system, fans are not crowded in like the old days. You have a barrier/seat , with one a couple of yards behind it, not like the old style barriers with huge crowds squeezed in and nowhere to go. I remember being at Highbury on the North Bank when Charlie George scored late on , and I was lifted off my feet and carried down the terrace and back up again. It was scary enough . Put terracing in the Paddock and in the front of the Bycars, and put those seats in the Lorne St. The only problem would be making the gradient better in the Bycars. There would be a great atmosphere then.

[Newfield Valiant]

A standing area being introduced should be all about choice. It should be about accommodating those who want to stand and those who don't with the minimum number of people being inconvenienced. If it happened it's only going to happen in the Bycars or Railway. The Lorne Street is the main stand with the best facilities so these should be the 'posh seats' if you will. You can pay extra for the privilege of sitting down and being dry at half time.

 

Railway Paddock would be the best option in my mind (it also means I wouldn't have to move ;) ) as it already houses the fans who choose the stand and the seating in the Railway Stand can house people who want to view the game from the side. I can see the appeal of the Bycars as it's the traditional English way (for want of a better phrase) to have a home 'end' and I imagine it has much better acoustics than the Paddock. However, I think it's a bit of an outdated and nostalgic idea to have an 'end' but if that's what most wanted I'd fully support it.

 

It's all speculation at the moment, anyway. For one we don't exactly have the cash to be remodelling stands and we should only bring this in if most fans want it but I feel that the demand is there and it is growing. If this was on the table a few years ago then a lot more people would be against it but after all the media attention on the German model and after the Hillsborough report standing has gained a new impetus. Surely this is going to be brought up at the Supporters Club meeting so let's wait and see what happens.

[andy jones]

Body. I Stan corrected then. I was going from an article in the Telegraph on Dortmund that quote the age linked cheap area.

[Fosse69]

Leave the Railway Paddock alone, why would we need 12,000 standing capacity? Side views are usually higher prices, whereas ends were usually cheaper and created the best atmosphere. Is standing using the existing seating arrangements unsafe, or just not legal as the current law stands? Could not the front half of the Bycars be authorised as a standing area? Obviously only at the same capacity, but not a problem at the Vale unless a massive game.

[Birdy]

How do you know it wouldn't cost "a great deal"? Funding? From where?

 

Moreover, what would be the financial benefit to the club?

In relative terms it wouldn't cost much as the stand is there. The Bycars rake is very shallow and even the seated foundation could accommodate terracing with the addition of crash barriers. There are two forms of terracing in Germany; your traditional terrace with crash barriers and strict capacity and 'safe standing seats' (pictured) which are more expensive but allow for standing in a seated area with crush barrier. The later is used in Germany when clubs play in international competitions

 

Clubs especially lower and non leagues received various forms of finance from the FA, football foundation, lottery funding etc etc

 

http://old.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/safe%20standing.jpg

[Jeff Kent]

I didn't know there were people like me! Please see the "Sentinel" website for my actual opinion, fairly reported by Mike Baggaley.

TBF I alaso take up 2 places when standing I take up 4 places when sitting as I like my 'personal space':D

 

I have no problem with converting the Bycars to standing, it's certainly underutilised as it is but in order to get some of the others in there who would consider standing you'd need to get a bar in there so that they could get a HT drink.

 

Not sure that people like Jeff Kent'd be so happy about it though.

[PGTips]

Just leave it as it is.

We can't afford to finish the ground never mind make any changes , plus the people who want to stand do that anyway .

Can just see a big clamour to change the Bycars and once the novelty had worn off most of the 'standers' would be back in the paddock just to be near the away fans.

Waste of money, if there's any spare ,spend it on the team .