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Denry Machin

ATTENDANCE FIGURE v BRENTFORD

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Would other people agree that despite this new ticket system, it's difficult not to remain sceptical over the attendance figures announced at Vale Park?

 

There were definitely more than 7,579 on Saturday - photographs show that the Railway was well over 3/4 full; as was the Lorne St; and with nearly 800 visiting supporters, there must have been over 8,000 at least. Failure to announce the figure during the game would give further proof that it seemed more like a "reliable figure" that was picked out randomly.

 

Last year the Northampton game was a near sell-out, but apparently less than 13,000 were there. Yet take into consideration the stadium's capacity of 18,900, at the bare minimum a figure of 15,000 would have been more believable.

 

In case you're wondering (!), I draw attention to it because the fans ARE turning up in numbers; support for the Vale hasn't been this consistently strong for years and it's a shame that it's not being recognised.

 

Is it possible that the free season tickets and free tickets for under 12's are not counted? My reasoning being that if the football league take their percentage of the gate then technically the club would be losing £ if these were submitted?

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There are a lot of conflicting figures about the capacity of Vale Park. It used to be about 23,000 even before the Lorne St was redeveloped.

 

The latest figures are as follows:

 

Lorne Street 2500

Hamil Rd 4500

Bycars 4000

Railway Stand 3700

Railways Paddock 3800

 

Add to that another 2500 in the new Family Stand.

 

Then consider the OLD Family Stand (which my guess is that it is not included in any of the above)

 

Lastly you have all the boxes and the directors area.

 

Using the above figures (taken from the current Vale website) the capacity is now 18,500 plus boxes, directors and family stand which should push it over 19,000.

 

When the new Family Stand opens we will be looking at over 21,500.

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I think the reason why I assumed there were more in the Railway is because I went through the turnstiles at 2.53pm, and the queues behind me were unreal. These would have filled the seats that are empty in your photo; but indeed, whether it supports my view that the crowd exceeded 8,000 I'm not convinced now.

 

And yes, no need to make enemies on a forum. We can leave the supporters of "the top 4" to do that on the Guardian website!

 

Bear in mind, my pic only shows half the stand. You'll have to take my word for it, but the majority were in that section and the other half of the Railway was pretty empty (because at the time, I obviously took a photo of a full-ish part of the Railway rather than an empty one). ;)

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There are a lot of conflicting figures about the capacity of Vale Park. It used to be about 23,000 even before the Lorne St was redeveloped.

 

The latest figures are as follows:

 

Lorne Street 2500

Hamil Rd 4500

Bycars 4000

Railway Stand 3700

Railways Paddock 3800

 

Add to that another 2500 in the new Family Stand.

 

Then consider the OLD Family Stand (which my guess is that it is not included in any of the above)

 

Lastly you have all the boxes and the directors area.

 

Using the above figures (taken from the current Vale website) the capacity is now 18,500 plus boxes, directors and family stand which should push it over 19,000.

 

When the new Family Stand opens we will be looking at over 21,500.

 

Are you SURE those figures are correct? 3,700 for the Railway Stand seems like an awful lot to me.

 

Wikipedia sums it up well when it says:

 

"It now has a notional capacity of around 22,000; however with all the developments and a switch to an all-seater stadium in recent years, it is more likely around 19,000 once the Lorne Street stand is completed."

 

It goes on to say that when the Lorne St is complete: "The current stadium holds 19,052 supporters and has four stands: Lorne Street opposite to The Railway Paddock, and The Bycars End facing the Hamil Road End. The Lorne Street Stand is relatively new, seating 5,000, with 48 executive boxes, however it is yet to be completed..."

 

According to Wikipedia therefore, it's 19,000 minus 2,5000 which is 16,500 capacity.

 

I know it's the official site and all that, but are those particular figures 100% accurate on there?

 

I personally would say the ground is nearer 16,000 than 19,000 capacity. I know it was once 20,000 plus but that was in the days of terracing...

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Would other people agree that despite this new ticket system, it's difficult not to remain sceptical over the attendance figures announced at Vale Park?

 

There were definitely more than 7,579 on Saturday - photographs show that the Railway was well over 3/4 full; as was the Lorne St; and with nearly 800 visiting supporters, there must have been over 8,000 at least. Failure to announce the figure during the game would give further proof that it seemed more like a "reliable figure" that was picked out randomly.

 

Last year the Northampton game was a near sell-out, but apparently less than 13,000 were there. Yet take into consideration the stadium's capacity of 18,900, at the bare minimum a figure of 15,000 would have been more believable.

 

In case you're wondering (!), I draw attention to it because the fans ARE turning up in numbers; support for the Vale hasn't been this consistently strong for years and it's a shame that it's not being recognised.

 

Is it possible that the free season tickets and free tickets for under 12's are not counted? My reasoning being that if the football league take their percentage of the gate then technically the club would be losing £ if these were submitted?

 

S'ready been addressed. ;)

 

As per replies earlier in this thread, it very much depends on whether you believe the capacity is 19,000 or around 16,000 and would be 19,000 once the Lorne St is completed.

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and yet there are those who are still highly suspicious of any announcement that is emitted from the club, why is that i wonder, are there those who still hanker for the old regime and so try to undermine the club at each and every opportunity or are they just lifes troublemakers.

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Looked pretty much spot on for me. Did find it a bit strange how it wasn't announced during the game though.

 

It was a new system which, apart from some less well-attended friendlies, was being used for the first time. I would expect that had something to do with the delay.

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I believe the 18/19,000 figure is for a stadium with a completed Lorne Street stand. The completed half of the LS is 2,500. So at the moment with a half-complete stand, you have to take off 2,500 seats making our capacity is more like 15,500. That makes the Northampton attendance of just under 13,000 more realistic.

 

As for Saturday, I would say as a rough estimate - the two ends had about 1,500 in (I thought the Bycars roughy matched the away attendance of 750). A full Lorne St is 2,500 (and it wasn't quite a sell-out) If the Paddock was 3/4 full that's a further 3,000-odd. That's a rough total of 7,000, so that would mean about 500-odd in the Railway stand (I couldn't see that many in there) to make it 7579.

 

That's how I saw the numbers in the stands and it matches the attendance given.

 

 

That's not right Rob.

 

Before the Lorne Street was redeveloped Vale Park held roughly 22,500. 19,000 is about right for it's current capacity with a half open Lorne Street.

 

Bycars and Hamil both hold roughly 4500, Railway combined must be somewhere around 8000 leaving somewhere between 1-2000 in the one open half of the Lorne Street.

 

I'd say saturday's attendance was about right.

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Erm... I always think it's a good idea to note your mistakes and this is one of those occasions. I owe Tone (and Bede, above) an apology - they were right and I was wrong... :blush:

 

I emailed the club as I thought it may be good to get an official word on the club attendance. It is...

 

"19148."

 

That is without the addition of the seats in the incomplete part of the Lorne St. Well, at least you know what the official capacity at Vale Park is now...

 

I'm off to write a hundred lines on "I must get the Vale Park capacity right next time"...

 

However, I still think my rough calculations on the 7,500 attendance on Saturday stand.

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Would other people agree that despite this new ticket system, it's difficult not to remain sceptical over the attendance figures announced at Vale Park?

 

There were definitely more than 7,579 on Saturday - photographs show that the Railway was well over 3/4 full; as was the Lorne St; and with nearly 800 visiting supporters, there must have been over 8,000 at least. Failure to announce the figure during the game would give further proof that it seemed more like a "reliable figure" that was picked out randomly.

 

Last year the Northampton game was a near sell-out, but apparently less than 13,000 were there. Yet take into consideration the stadium's capacity of 18,900, at the bare minimum a figure of 15,000 would have been more believable.

 

In case you're wondering (!), I draw attention to it because the fans ARE turning up in numbers; support for the Vale hasn't been this consistently strong for years and it's a shame that it's not being recognised.

 

I am not sure if this is an accusation of wrong doing in any way but I think you have to be very careful with what you say especially knowing that Smurf does read this site.

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There are a lot of conflicting figures about the capacity of Vale Park. It used to be about 23,000 even before the Lorne St was redeveloped.

 

The latest figures are as follows:

 

Lorne Street 2500

Hamil Rd 4500

Bycars 4000

Railway Stand 3700

Railways Paddock 3800

 

Add to that another 2500 in the new Family Stand.

 

Then consider the OLD Family Stand (which my guess is that it is not included in any of the above)

 

Lastly you have all the boxes and the directors area.

 

Using the above figures (taken from the current Vale website) the capacity is now 18,500 plus boxes, directors and family stand which should push it over 19,000.

 

When the new Family Stand opens we will be looking at over 21,500.

I think the old Family Stand is to be renamed the corner stand, was originally part of the Railway Paddock, cap 12,000 before the seats were put in.

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Erm... I always think it's a good idea to note your mistakes and this is one of those occasions. I owe Tone (and Bede, above) an apology - they were right and I was wrong... :blush:

 

I emailed the club as I thought it may be good to get an official word on the club attendance. It is...

 

"19148."

 

That is without the addition of the seats in the incomplete part of the Lorne St. Well, at least you know what the official capacity at Vale Park is now...

 

I'm off to write a hundred lines on "I must get the Vale Park capacity right next time"...

 

However, I still think my rough calculations on the 7,500 attendance on Saturday stand.

 

No need for an apology on my part, Rob.

 

In answer to your previous question, I am tending to believe what the club says these days. I know I have done that in the past and my faith in previous people in charge has been ill-founded, but Smurf seems like the real deal. He will be setting the "tone" for the whole club these days (although I struggle with one person who has been around a while, no names, no pack drill).

 

As regards the club's official response of 19,148, I am sure this excludes the new Family Stand but I wonder if it includes the old one? The website does not specify the capacity of that section, does anyone know? Whatever anyone says about the view, it does have long-term potential.

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In answer to your previous question, I am tending to believe what the club says these days. I know I have done that in the past and my faith in previous people in charge has been ill-founded, but Smurf seems like the real deal.

 

And I agree with that, regardless of whether he reads the site or not.

 

Logically, why would there be ANY reason for Vale to declare a smaller attendance than the actual one. We're trying to increase revenue to potentially add another player to the payroll.

 

I don't think the Vale would do anything wrong but logically it would be more beneficial to artificially inflate the attendance NOT decrease it.

 

For that reason, and the fact that the owner has done what he said he was going to do, has given straight answers to all questions, I cannot see how the "attendance conspiracy theories" have any credence.

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If you look at the first page of THIS THREAD from only a year ago, it seems like the old family stand was between 550 and 600.

 

Also, we never mentioned the disabled stand, albeit a mere 48.

 

Lastly, I am now beginning to think that the Lorne Street Capacity of 2500 is for the whole of the left section and that the whole of the right section will also be about the same - 5,000 in total. I was reminded that, if I'm not mistaken, there are about 1800 available seats on the bottom tier.

 

So I make the completed capacity about 21,600 (if the "Corner Stand" is used).

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I am not sure if this is an accusation of wrong doing in any way but I think you have to be very careful with what you say especially knowing that Smurf does read this site.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Well, despite the numerous thumbs down that my initial post has received, it was never my intention to accuse Vale of wrongdoing. It seems to be quite easy to generate hostility from some people if your thread that doesn't herald anything overtly positive.

 

I'm not trying to bad-mouth Smurf, the man's brilliant and a saviour. An inaccurate attendance can be down to many reasons, and I'm not suggesting it's been the club's intention to de-value the support the fans show. Questioning the accuracy is down to what I see with my eyes, not what I suspect is going on behind closed doors.

 

As I mentioned before, there was barely an empty seat at the Northampton game (apart from the away end, obviously) and so the figure of 12,496 didn't stick right with me, and it couldn't have done with others, surely? Especially if Rob has just received the official figure of 19,148. No way could there have been nearly 7,000 empty seats, 5,000 of which would have to be in the Vale stands.

 

I'm not pointing the finger, I'm opening up a question for other people's thoughts.

 

Regardless, I seem to have opened up a in-depth discussion about the ground's capacity!

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Erm... I always think it's a good idea to note your mistakes and this is one of those occasions. I owe Tone (and Bede, above) an apology - they were right and I was wrong... :blush:

 

I emailed the club as I thought it may be good to get an official word on the club attendance. It is...

 

"19148."

 

That is without the addition of the seats in the incomplete part of the Lorne St. Well, at least you know what the official capacity at Vale Park is now...

 

I'm off to write a hundred lines on "I must get the Vale Park capacity right next time"...

 

However, I still think my rough calculations on the 7,500 attendance on Saturday stand.

 

Bet you used copy and paste eh Rob? pmsl

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