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ATTENDANCE FIGURE v BRENTFORD


Denry Machin

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We're getting into Columbo territory now ...!

 

I think the reason why I assumed there were more in the Railway is because I went through the turnstiles at 2.53pm, and the queues behind me were unreal. These would have filled the seats that are empty in your photo; but indeed, whether it supports my view that the crowd exceeded 8,000 I'm not convinced now.

 

And yes, no need to make enemies on a forum. We can leave the supporters of "the top 4" to do that on the Guardian website!

 

What do you mean by a unreal queue? Look at the photo on the side of the shop as a guide.

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What do you mean by a unreal queue? Look at the photo on the side of the shop as a guide.

 

"Unreal" meaning that the turnstiles for the Railway Paddock and Stand (so round the side of ground, opposite the Co op car park) still had queues ranging between 80 and a hundred people, for each of the 5/6 turnstiles.

 

That's about half a thousand people at five to 3. HOWEVER, whether that simply meant people had underestimated their arrival time and, therefore, many supporters were still not in their seats by kick off, then my idea of a bigger crowd won't hold.

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pointless thread in my opinion. lets drop vale in it, fiddling the crowd. about 20years ago on one of the open days we were aloud in the police box . a police officer sat a group of us down explained what happened to someone who got arrested, showed us the cctv but the one thing i will never forget is as every turnstile clicked it added up how many were entering the ground in each section. i believe the crowd given is the true crowd everytime , it would be crazy for any club to take the risk in giving false numbers

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pointless thread in my opinion. lets drop vale in it, fiddling the crowd. about 20years ago on one of the open days we were aloud in the police box . a police officer sat a group of us down explained what happened to someone who got arrested, showed us the cctv but the one thing i will never forget is as every turnstile clicked it added up how many were entering the ground in each section. i believe the crowd given is the true crowd everytime , it would be crazy for any club to take the risk in giving false numbers

 

guessing you didn't go to the Arsenal game?

 

But in all seriousness the crowd seemed about right

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Would other people agree that despite this new ticket system, it's difficult not to remain sceptical over the attendance figures announced at Vale Park?

 

There were definitely more than 7,579 on Saturday - photographs show that the Railway was well over 3/4 full; as was the Lorne St; and with nearly 800 visiting supporters, there must have been over 8,000 at least. Failure to announce the figure during the game would give further proof that it seemed more like a "reliable figure" that was picked out randomly.

 

Last year the Northampton game was a near sell-out, but apparently less than 13,000 were there. Yet take into consideration the stadium's capacity of 18,900, at the bare minimum a figure of 15,000 would have been more believable.

 

In case you're wondering (!), I draw attention to it because the fans ARE turning up in numbers; support for the Vale hasn't been this consistently strong for years and it's a shame that it's not being recognised.

 

Is it possible that the free season tickets and free tickets for under 12's are not counted? My reasoning being that if the football league take their percentage of the gate then technically the club would be losing £ if these were submitted?

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There are a lot of conflicting figures about the capacity of Vale Park. It used to be about 23,000 even before the Lorne St was redeveloped.

 

The latest figures are as follows:

 

Lorne Street 2500

Hamil Rd 4500

Bycars 4000

Railway Stand 3700

Railways Paddock 3800

 

Add to that another 2500 in the new Family Stand.

 

Then consider the OLD Family Stand (which my guess is that it is not included in any of the above)

 

Lastly you have all the boxes and the directors area.

 

Using the above figures (taken from the current Vale website) the capacity is now 18,500 plus boxes, directors and family stand which should push it over 19,000.

 

When the new Family Stand opens we will be looking at over 21,500.

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I think the reason why I assumed there were more in the Railway is because I went through the turnstiles at 2.53pm, and the queues behind me were unreal. These would have filled the seats that are empty in your photo; but indeed, whether it supports my view that the crowd exceeded 8,000 I'm not convinced now.

 

And yes, no need to make enemies on a forum. We can leave the supporters of "the top 4" to do that on the Guardian website!

 

Bear in mind, my pic only shows half the stand. You'll have to take my word for it, but the majority were in that section and the other half of the Railway was pretty empty (because at the time, I obviously took a photo of a full-ish part of the Railway rather than an empty one). ;)

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There are a lot of conflicting figures about the capacity of Vale Park. It used to be about 23,000 even before the Lorne St was redeveloped.

 

The latest figures are as follows:

 

Lorne Street 2500

Hamil Rd 4500

Bycars 4000

Railway Stand 3700

Railways Paddock 3800

 

Add to that another 2500 in the new Family Stand.

 

Then consider the OLD Family Stand (which my guess is that it is not included in any of the above)

 

Lastly you have all the boxes and the directors area.

 

Using the above figures (taken from the current Vale website) the capacity is now 18,500 plus boxes, directors and family stand which should push it over 19,000.

 

When the new Family Stand opens we will be looking at over 21,500.

 

Are you SURE those figures are correct? 3,700 for the Railway Stand seems like an awful lot to me.

 

Wikipedia sums it up well when it says:

 

"It now has a notional capacity of around 22,000; however with all the developments and a switch to an all-seater stadium in recent years, it is more likely around 19,000 once the Lorne Street stand is completed."

 

It goes on to say that when the Lorne St is complete: "The current stadium holds 19,052 supporters and has four stands: Lorne Street opposite to The Railway Paddock, and The Bycars End facing the Hamil Road End. The Lorne Street Stand is relatively new, seating 5,000, with 48 executive boxes, however it is yet to be completed..."

 

According to Wikipedia therefore, it's 19,000 minus 2,5000 which is 16,500 capacity.

 

I know it's the official site and all that, but are those particular figures 100% accurate on there?

 

I personally would say the ground is nearer 16,000 than 19,000 capacity. I know it was once 20,000 plus but that was in the days of terracing...

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Would other people agree that despite this new ticket system, it's difficult not to remain sceptical over the attendance figures announced at Vale Park?

 

There were definitely more than 7,579 on Saturday - photographs show that the Railway was well over 3/4 full; as was the Lorne St; and with nearly 800 visiting supporters, there must have been over 8,000 at least. Failure to announce the figure during the game would give further proof that it seemed more like a "reliable figure" that was picked out randomly.

 

Last year the Northampton game was a near sell-out, but apparently less than 13,000 were there. Yet take into consideration the stadium's capacity of 18,900, at the bare minimum a figure of 15,000 would have been more believable.

 

In case you're wondering (!), I draw attention to it because the fans ARE turning up in numbers; support for the Vale hasn't been this consistently strong for years and it's a shame that it's not being recognised.

 

Is it possible that the free season tickets and free tickets for under 12's are not counted? My reasoning being that if the football league take their percentage of the gate then technically the club would be losing £ if these were submitted?

 

S'ready been addressed. ;)

 

As per replies earlier in this thread, it very much depends on whether you believe the capacity is 19,000 or around 16,000 and would be 19,000 once the Lorne St is completed.

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and yet there are those who are still highly suspicious of any announcement that is emitted from the club, why is that i wonder, are there those who still hanker for the old regime and so try to undermine the club at each and every opportunity or are they just lifes troublemakers.

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Looked pretty much spot on for me. Did find it a bit strange how it wasn't announced during the game though.

 

It was a new system which, apart from some less well-attended friendlies, was being used for the first time. I would expect that had something to do with the delay.

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I believe the 18/19,000 figure is for a stadium with a completed Lorne Street stand. The completed half of the LS is 2,500. So at the moment with a half-complete stand, you have to take off 2,500 seats making our capacity is more like 15,500. That makes the Northampton attendance of just under 13,000 more realistic.

 

As for Saturday, I would say as a rough estimate - the two ends had about 1,500 in (I thought the Bycars roughy matched the away attendance of 750). A full Lorne St is 2,500 (and it wasn't quite a sell-out) If the Paddock was 3/4 full that's a further 3,000-odd. That's a rough total of 7,000, so that would mean about 500-odd in the Railway stand (I couldn't see that many in there) to make it 7579.

 

That's how I saw the numbers in the stands and it matches the attendance given.

 

 

That's not right Rob.

 

Before the Lorne Street was redeveloped Vale Park held roughly 22,500. 19,000 is about right for it's current capacity with a half open Lorne Street.

 

Bycars and Hamil both hold roughly 4500, Railway combined must be somewhere around 8000 leaving somewhere between 1-2000 in the one open half of the Lorne Street.

 

I'd say saturday's attendance was about right.

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Erm... I always think it's a good idea to note your mistakes and this is one of those occasions. I owe Tone (and Bede, above) an apology - they were right and I was wrong... :blush:

 

I emailed the club as I thought it may be good to get an official word on the club attendance. It is...

 

"19148."

 

That is without the addition of the seats in the incomplete part of the Lorne St. Well, at least you know what the official capacity at Vale Park is now...

 

I'm off to write a hundred lines on "I must get the Vale Park capacity right next time"...

 

However, I still think my rough calculations on the 7,500 attendance on Saturday stand.

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