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Smallthorne Dog
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Posts posted by Smallthorne Dog
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Just listening to the Barrow review. As is evident from my posts earlier in the thread, i suspect that Mitch hasnt sufdenly become a problem over the last few weeks as a result of hanging around with McKirdy.
I saw with my own eyes that he used to associate with the likes of Miller and Whitfield and were relatively openly taking the piss out of the manager at the end of season presentation in May 2019.
So you have to question the manager in resigning him, and in signing McKirdy in the summer.
McKirdy's reputation was well known, so why would a manager who is renknowned for building a cohesive squad, who all buy into the managers work ethic, sign a player like that? Outside pressure to do so?
Similarly, im not convinced he ever wanted Clarke back at the club. He could have made a move for him before signing Mills if he really wanted him, and i dont think he was that keen even when Gibbo and Mills were out. So why make the signing? Pressure from the fans? Pressure from the owners?
90% of the players Askey has wanted to bring to the club since he came here haven't been good enough. So why on earth would he then go and sign players like Clarke, McKirdy and Robinson when they dont fit with his ethics or what he wants to build?
Something is wrong with the manager/owner relationship. Either its too cosy, or he hasnt got the balls to tell them "no, im not bringing that player to the club".-
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Well Askey has benched him and then sent him back prior to the end of his loan period despite Gibbo still being injured and Zac Mills being in terrible form and costing us goals and points. That says to me, that there is something more going on.Smallthorne dog about 5 or 6 posts above mine mentioned Clark with others-
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Spot on Alex, i thought you were an excellent guest who offered a balanced and reasonable viewpoint
Cheers for the feedback. A few points here.
1) Can't help my accent I'm afraid.
2) I live in north London and very occasionally watch Arsenal with my father in law.
3) I don't know how on earth you got the impression that I'm a Man Utd fan. United weren't even mentioned - at any point.
4) I've been supporting Vale for the best part of 25 years now.
5) The Ale and Vale lads are doing a cracking job with the pod.-
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On the subject of dressing room unrest, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.
Judging by the team andcsquad that were put out yesterday im assuming that Pope, McKirdy, Robinson, Clark and possibly Cullen are involved.
We know Askey wanted rid of Pope at the end of last season (but that didnt happen)
McKirdy and Robinson were both late additions when we thought our business was done and Clark was an emergency loan due to injuries.
So whose to blame for the unrest? Do we have any sympathy with Askey as on the face of it, he signed the majority of those players and had a chance to get rid of the other. Or is something else going on behind the scenes?
Have the owners had an influence in Pope staying, using the funds on McKirdy and Robinson, and bringing Clark back in because he is popular with the fans? Or is it all Askey's doing?
Either way with those 5 jettisoned yesterday we got back to playing passionate, neat, quick football on the ground, with seemingly little discontent in the camp.
January will be interesting. -
Hi Stu, I wasn't trying to suggest that you guys were not laying into the Cambridge performance because you'd had Carol on as a guest. More that the fans in general are giving Askey a bit more slack than they normally would because they don't want to be seen to be overly critical due to the massive effort Carol and her team have put in.
Given that huge effort from the owners I think we all deserve a bit better from the team than we are currently getting. It's not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination, but it's definitely below expectations. -
I'm not one for over reaction and cant be doing with hysteria, but feel you are being overly kind in your assessments lads. I think it might be down to the Carol factor, and that nobody wants to be critical when we had such a feel good factor around the club in pre season. But for me serious questions are going to have to be asked if things don't improve quickly.
Yes we have got injuries, but a lot of has been made of our squad depth, and as such we should be in a position to cover those injuries, so its not really an excuse this season.
too many players are under performing, and for a team with four (supposed) quality strikers we should be scoring a lot more goals than we are. Worrall's end product hasn't been good enough, from what I've seen so far Whitehead hasn't got the quality required. Burgess has got that quality but he isn't showing it for whatever reason. we don't look incisive enough and for all our hustle and bustle we aren't creating the chances we should be.
The squad has been heavily invested in, and it was widely anticipated we would be a top 6 side this season. Currently we look a lower mid table team, and it needs sorting quickly.
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Just managed to catch up with the Carlisle review. Thought you were pretty much spot on with your assessments. I was more inclined to agree with Stu's assessment of the first half than Johnny and Bezza's to be honest, but it should have been obvious that the midfield was testing overrun, and things should have changed at half time. Having said that, as poor as we were, we should have been 2-0 up before they scored, and had we have taken those chances we would have won the game inspire of the poor managerial decisions.
Thought you were generous to both Legge and Pope. Two senior pros who.were abysmal.on Saturday. -
Presumably with the references to "dogs" abuse and getting the "woof" end of the stick, it might be a Keith Lard situation
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Thought the Sproson criticism was a bit OTT fellas. We don't know what's gone on there, but I would be laying the blame at Forest's door. There would have been plenty of interest in Taylor in the summer, not least from us, but Forest pissed about with him. Clubs looked elsewhere and with the salary cap now in place, most will have used their allocated budget by this point. I suspect there were very few options left for him at this stage of the season, and Sproson has had to get him in where he can.Our Morecambe preview is out now!
We cover the latest out of the club. Carol's attempts to get fans back in, COVID at Vale and an ex-loanee making a surprising move. Then it's in to the Morecambe match, should be a tough match. What do you think?
Available on Apple, Google and Spotify podcasts (Plus many more). Also here https://aleandthevale.podbean.com-
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Interesting debate regarding Amoo if he's fit. You couldn't seem to squeeze him onto the bench. My question would be will he get in when he is fit? And if not is he surplus to requirements? I've never really seen the attraction myself. He wouldn't get in ahead of either Worrall or Rodney that's for sure, and McKirdy is the other option and he gives you a goal threat that Amoo doesn't.
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Just listening to the pod fellas. Couple of points to make. With regard to fans being allowed in the ground, agree 100% with everything you said about Boris' ridiculous rules... But...the Hashtag United video shows exactly why the ban remains in place. While the vast majority of responsible fans will adhere to social distancing, there will always be <ovf censored> who behave like that and ruin it for everyone else. It might be 30 or 40 of them watching a tinpot team, but in league football you could have groups of 4 or 5 hundred doing the same thing.We're back with a Harrogate preview. Before that we discuss why on earth fans can't go and watch league football, and what our mate Norman has been up to this week. Enjoy!
Available on Apple, Google and Spotify podcasts (Plus many more). Also here https://aleandthevale.podbean.com
Ifollow is a farce, I had problems with the Scunny feed and the Crawley feed failed to work at all. As such I tuned into an illegal stream for the Exeter game. I wasn't comfortable with the club not benefitting but I'm not prepared to shell out for a sub standard service. As such if I tune in to an unofficial stream again, I will donate to the just giving page for the Lorne Street concourse. Either that, or if the club set up its own way of contributing, such as online golden goal or shirt of the back tickets, I'd purchase a few of those to the same value as the cost of the game on ifollow. That way 100% of the money goes to the club
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Forgot to add my reasoning...
Southall -was just head and shoulders above any keeper we'll ever see at Vale in my lifetime.
Full backs - both were basically defensive wingers. Hughes had blistering pace, both could cross a ball accurately and Simon Simon was a cult hero with the best chant for any player while I've been a supporter.
Centre Halves - Aspo was hard as nails and would run through a brick wall for the team (even played on after that horror tackle from Steve Foley in 92). Deano was so cultured and comfortable on the ball, never seemed in any difficulty in any situation.
Midfield- You need a ball winner and a playmaker. Goober was a terrier, knew the dark outs and wasn't afraid to use them, but he could play a bit too. Robbie was just class, it was a toss up between him and Ray Walker but Robbie's goalscoring ability got him in there (Ian Taylor missed out as a result)
Wingers - Chamberlain went on to play for England within months of being in Div 4 with us, that tells you all you need to know.
Guppy gets in ahead of both McCarthy and Ainsworth because he had more trickery, was a better crosser of the ball.
Strikers - Jones just on pure goals to game ratio. My Dad knows nothing about football, but even he stopped asking me who had scored for Vale when I got in from the games circa 87. Because he knew the inevitable answer .... Andy Jones.
Naylor was a pocket genius... Just look at the goal v Sunderland and that tells you all you need to know.
Subs - Goodlad - Underated due to the era he followed
Sproson - Club legend
Van Der Laan - another legend, had it all, a tackle, a pass, and goals.
Foyle - Less goals than Pope but just such a more skillful player who played at at a much higher standard
Walker- Vision.... Saw things happening on a football pitch about 10 seconds before anyone else did.-
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An best Vale XI from my time as a fan is such a hard thing to do. I could change it 100 times and still not be happy with it. I've gone for...
GK Neville Southall
RB Simon Mills
LB Darren Hughes
CB Dean Glover
CB Neil Aspin
CM Andy Porter
CM Robbie Earle
LW Steve Guppy
RW Mark Chamberlain
ST Andy Jones
ST Tony Naylor
Subs
GK Mark Goodlad
CB Phil Sproson
CM Robin Van Der Laan
CM Ray Walker
ST Martin Foyle.
So many Vale legends and personal favourites I could have made a whole new team with the players I've had to leave out.-
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Another good topic to try and get the inside story on, would be the whole Paul Wildes episode. Him and Norman seemed such an odd couple, how did it come about, what was the relationship dynamic, where did it all go wrong, and was Wildes departure the beginning of Norma's descent into madness?
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Not a good time to become a Vale fan
. I was lucky enough to start going in the early 80's so got all the glory years in my teens and early 20's.-
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I always liked Bradley Sandman. He was a good wing back, but he suffered from the fact that he followed Simon Simon.
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I remember being behind the goal at the Kids grove Athletic friendly watching the keepers warm up and being staggered that the goalkeeping coach didn't speak a word of English. I remember him trying to communicate entirely by gestures and sign language. With Jak Alnwick visibly frustrated and (I think it was) Ryan Boot looking utterly bemused. The writing was on the wall from early doors, but at times in that early part of the season (Wigan and Scunthorpe if I remember rightly) we looked like we could be unplayable going forward.With the Bruno era I think we could all see from the start of the season that it was going to eventually come crashing down at some point. We picked up results but I’m not sure how, as we were truly awful in most games and getting overran on most occasions. I imagine scouting us for the start of the season would also have played a part - as we were a pure unknown. -
As well as delving deeper into the Aspin era and the unprofessionalism quoted by Askey at the time he took over, other interesting topics from the past would be...
Sinnott ... Was he deliberately undermined by Glover, was he given enough time? Or was he just out of his depth.
Similarly Bruno.... Why the sudden drop off after a promising start? Was Brown involved in that to further his own opportunities.
Page, Norman and Exeter in the cup. Was he really going to get sacked live on TV? Norman addressing fans on the coach after the game etc. Should Smurf have been sectioned for his own wellbeing?
Billy Bell's biscuit tin. Dodgy attendances at Vale park, and the mystery of the Dave Brammer sale. -
I think Miller and Hannant were probably at the centre of it.
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I think Pope's Twitter activity hasn't endeared him to Askey, I can see him having limited game time this season before moving on. A marquee signing of another striker would only accelerate the end I think.
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Another great Pod lads, enjoyed that.
You lot obviously see something in Amoo that I don't. Maybe I've just missed his good games
. I think he flatters to deceive and while I take your point that if he was consistent he wouldn't be in league 2, I would still expect a bit more from him than we are getting. One good game in every 3 or 4 isn't good enough in my honest opinion. Give me Jeno over him anyday of the week.
Talk of Adam Le Fondre at the end there, if Vale are going to splash some big money on a "name" at this level, why not go after Brett Pitman. He's still got a couple of years left, always scores goals wherever he has been and unless the wage demands are ridiculously high, you are pretty much investing in a guaranteed return.-
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Midfield
Luke Joyce - Solid
Emmanuel Oyeleke - Sicknote
Tom Conlon - Everywhere
Scott Burgess - Potential
Daniel Trickett-Smith - Norman's
Alex Hurst - Who
Wingers
Rhys Browne - Tricky
David Amoo - Overated
David Worrall - Effort
Strikers
Devante Rodney - Quick
Mark Cullen - Underated
Tom Pope - Handful -
Thanks Rob, it's been a while
. Sorry to jump into the conversation but nice to see you back @Smallthorne Dog hope you enjoy the debate on here.
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Yeh, we are all good thanks Stu, hope you are keeping well? Looking forward to more from the podcast and will be more than happy to have a bit of interaction. Although I don't do Twitter, so will have to find an alternative way
Ah cheers Rob, great to hear from you! I hope you and the family are well.
You've basically nailed what we're trying to do, and I'm glad it's rekindled your passion in any way.
It will be great to get your opinions on what's happening at the club. We're hoping to get more fan interaction going as the season nears, on here and other forms of social media. I hope you will be a part of it!
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Ale and the Vale Podcast
in Port Vale present
Posted
Ive long suspected that McKirdy, Robibson and Clarke werent Askey signings or that he was heavily leant on to bring them in.
I also believe he has wanted rid of Pope for a while and has been prevented from doing so.
All that does is send signals to the players that the manager has no authority. When you combine this with the facy that one or two didnt like him in the first place, it has created a situation where the players rule the roost and we have gone from a cohesive unit with a strong dressing room to a circus in a matter of months.
Askey isnt responsible for that, ultimately someone else at the club is. We could play Agatha Christie all day (is it Carol, Patrick, Rudgie, Sinclair, Garlick?) but that wont alter the situation.
Carol needs to hold her hands up and admit the mistakes but ultimately despite it not being down to him and despite plainly having the rug pulled from underneath him, Askey cant fix it, and he has to go.