Guitar Ray

As you say, mistakes happen, and can be forgiven. But what’s to forgive? An error of judgment. So what do you want? Some sort of grovelling apology for that? Why not simply let the club have their inquest, as per Matt Hancock, and state their findings. Discuss. Move forward. End of.

What’s to be gained from dragging this old chestnut up? Whatever the circumstances behind CG leaving he isn’t the reason we’ve been relegated.

Maybe you’re standing by that person with the wool still firmly pulled over your eyes though.

We’ll renew as normal the only question was in which stand. I did think about moving from the Hamil but we were talking about it again last night at the game and the consensus in our small group was to give it another season.

Very easy to say, but I just repeated your sentence and found my fist had punched a hole in a nearby stud wall. I’ll be needing some patch plaster before I can learn from it and move on. 😖

Spot on, but quite frankly I’m not arsed much at all about communication, just give me the stuff I need to know and beyond that a winning team to talk about. A lot of the stuff the club have come out with has just been used as a stick to beat them with so I don’t know why they bother. Basically a lot of folk these days want to know it all so they can talk about 💩 on social media all day long. Anyway, here’s me talking more 💩

Just to correct you, I have no positive bias towards Clarke and I think if you care to read back through various topics my comments would always acknowledge the fact that Crosby played a big part in our promotion. People seem to forget that the manager isn’t a one man band. When Clarke was in charge he had a team of staff along side him, Crosby being one member of that team. Moving along, I also don’t think Crosby was as bad a manager as many are making out. My own feelings being that he was hamstrung by recruitment and having to buy in to the football philosophy of his boss, David Flitcroft. I’ve said on several occasions that if we add a couple of capable strikers to our current, admittedly poor, squad, Crosby would’ve had enough about him to guide the side to safety, albeit probably not challenge for the play offs.

Quite clearly these are subjective views, personal opinions. Taken at face value his CV suggests he’s a good manager at league 2 level.

Oatcakes are available in the fanzone.

Nobody is saying the owners are beyond criticism, far from it. No escaping the fact though that the DoF should shoulder the bulk of the blame for our current situation. Without knowing the full facts it appears that when discussing the managers position with Flitcroft the DoF pathway came up and obviously he sold himself to Carol that he was the best available candidate and so ends up with that job on a part-time basis. I think it’s on record he said he wasn’t interested in the full time managers job due to business commitments. So he’s effectively “advised” Carol into giving him the DoF job which eventually ends up being full time anyway. In terms of the managerial recruitment then that’s on Flitcroft, as the man responsible for all things football. He gets the plaudits for appointing Clarke, equally should be castigated when Crosby fails, although for me a massive part of that failure was the weaknesses in the squad and recruitment based around playing a rigid style, the jury is out on Moore until he’s working with his own squad of players. It’s the DoF’s job to recruit the manager and Carol has 2 choices, trust her DoF or ignore him and go her own way, which is hint going to happen. Sadly, we’re having a conversation which would’ve been so different had our ex-DoF managed to add a couple of capable strikers at some point over 3 transfer windows. Turn a couple of this seasons losses or draws into wins and we’d be safe and looking to improve again in League 1.

To appoint someone better qualified than yourself into a role and delegate responsibility is not poor leadership and is perfectly normal in any business. The problem is that Flitcroft has been able to manipulate Carol from day one, being interviewed as a potential manager the club suddenly adopts a completely new DoF model with him as that DoF. Bingo! Our initial success and the galvanising effect it had no doubt clouded people’s judgement. Clearly Flitcroft was a grade A waffler full of management speak and that possibly appealed to Carol, who knows, but she clearly rated the guy, hence that crazy letter.

I beg to differ. Clarke has a proven track record at the level below so was a solid appointment. Where Flitcroft got lucky was that Clarke replicated that success with us in achieving another promotion, which could in no way be guaranteed let alone in the short timescale it took. I feel your negative bias towards Clarke has blinkered your judgement on this one. Fair to say however that this success also probably played into Flitcroft’s hands in the sense that it made it harder for the powers that be to accept that he wasn’t capable of turning things around. Naturally the manager would get the axe first as is always the case. Then we’re in the wait and see cycle again until finally, after changing several managers and pressure from the fans the lightbulb has had to come on.

Maybe the fact that she’s seeing her own millions disappear will focus her mind slightly more than it will me worrying about the price of a couple of season tickets in League 2. Who knows?

Folk expect a scoreboard and we’ve had one forever. The old one was knackered, plus was in the way if you’re stood at the back of the Hamil….. buts that’s a separate topic.

I used to work for a guy who did give people a chance, particularly sales people. And he was also pretty friendly with some of them. But he wasn't afraid to get rid of them if they weren't performing for his business. Unfortunately, to be successful, you have to be ruthless at times. Even if you personally like the people. We have got rid of people. Not soon enough is more the issue.

Goodnight.

Who said she’s a lifelong fan? I didn’t and it’s widely on record what her history is regarding football so nothing is being rewritten as far as I can see. I think you’re understating the fact that someone had to “throw money away” to take the club out of the clutches of Sexman. Maybe you’ve forgotten what was going on around that time. Carol went wrong by trusting David Flitcroft, who was approached for the managers job but somehow managed to convince her we needed a DoF and wangled the job for himself. Flitcroft got lucky in that a decent managerial appointment in DC saw us promoted which would’ve cemented his reputation in Carol’s eyes. From then on it’s been more a typical Flitcroft scenario that we’ve seen.

Have you ever sacked anyone who’d delivered some success to your business so you maybe felt some loyalty towards? Ever sacked anyone you liked and possibly had some respect for? Ever sacked anyone without giving them a chance to improve? Ever sacked anyone? That’s the dilemma Carol had. We’re sat here keyboard warrioring with no real connection to the guy so it’s dead easy for us to wield the axe.

I think she is a fan but she's pretty new in relative terms. I sat on a table with her and her mate a few years ago when the company i worked for sponsored a game. She had only just started attending games and I think part of it was from a networking point. She's a nice lady and I genuinely believe that she has the best of intentions. But let's not pretend she's a lifelong supporter. I think she's trying to run the club like a corporate business. They're so different. I still don't think she gets that. I’ve taken people, other than kids, up to the Vale who’ve gone on to become solid fans so what’s your point? There are plenty of folk up there who weren’t born into a Vale supporting family. It’s BS how long you’ve supported a club it’s how much you support your club. It’s different for everyone. Some people will hurt more than others today. Either way nobody spends all that money and puts up with all the stress and 💩 to network.

If I employ you you get the job because I think you meet the criteria but also I like you. That’s how it usually works. So then I put my trust in you to do the job and initially things go well, in our case we get promoted. It’s then quite hard to just turn around at the first sign of failure and sack that individual who’s delivered in the very recent past but is also someone you have now built up a good working relationship with. The reasons for CG’s departure have never been made public.

I wish I had a pound for every time someone told me this or that Vale team is the worst in x number of years. I’d definitely have more than a couple of quid in the bank. Funnily enough the fans usually see the manager out of his job, obviously based on results and performances. Some clubs fans are more patient than others. Exeter, our opponents today, were in dire straights but they stuck with Caldwell despite results earlier in the season and the grumblings among the fanbase. We’re relying on kids because our recruitment hadn’t been good enough. That’s on Flitcroft not Carol. He’s an experienced ex-player, ex-manager who should have some idea when it comes to player recruitment. Carol has never kicked a ball in anger, she’s trusted a guy to do a job. He’s failed big time. Her mistake was not recognising the cause of the situation we were in. Rest assured, Carol is a fan.

Your first 6 points come back to Flitcroft and recruitment. The letter, misguided as it was, would never have been written under better circumstances. The toilets, not great that they aren’t fixed but the issue itself is just one of those unfortunate events that happen with any property which is showing its age and has been neglected. Your “Good men” may not have been so good. Who knows? People come and go in all walks of life. No disrespect to Speedie but you can hardly say the problems result from the state of the pitch.

They’re employed to do a job, so yes. The fact remains though that it’s the first team that’s truly failed so let’s hold those guys accountable. We’ve already done that. Sacked several managers and finally the DoF. The fact is that recruiting these people is a complete lottery. One look at those clowns next to the incinerator will tell you all you need to know on that score. Whoever comes in can be good or bad, flip a coin. Ultimately though, whoever is in the respective roles, if we get the player recruitment and development right it’ll all fall into place. That’s all Carol needs to focus on. Sounds easy doesn’t it.

You keep saying she’s got so many things wrong. It’s nonsense. She got the fundamental wrong, but that was down to one man whose job it was to manage anything that touched a football. If player recruitment had been better we wouldn’t be having this discussion because the rest of it is either a result of that or relatively minor.

In fairness we are more professional, unfortunately that also costs more money. We have various directors/officers/managers/heads of department/call them what you will, so in theory it isn’t just Carol making decisions it’s a group. The bottom line is that on the football side our DoF wasn’t up to the job and our owner was too loyal, or as you call it stubborn. The question is do we stay with the DoF model, so common nowadays, or is there another way to get some football business expertise involved? Failing that it’s back to the owners to make all the footballing decisions.