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Shropshire_Valiant

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Posts posted by Shropshire_Valiant

  1. Haven't read a lot of the thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything, I think the fact we have staff who were "supporting" Flitcroft I assume with the "donkey work" on stats/scouting etc on potential signings can still prove useful?  Can they not report to Moore with their findings then he makes the overall decision on whether we try and sign said player?  Then when it comes to thrashing out the financials if it's more complicated obviously someone higher up the chain in the club Carol/Kevin whoever would have to be involved in discussions. 

    Obviously something somewhere in the "process" has been going wrong under Flitcroft so clearly that needs ironing out by the club moving forward!

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  2. 1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

    Mr Flitcroft look at the Notts County forward Jatta, signed from Viborg on the last day of the transfer window, only came into the first team last week, he’s already got three goals, yes three, just shows players are out there if you are bothered, on top of Jatta they have Langstaff and McGoldrick, wow compared to our blunt force of strikers. Why oh why won’t we sign decent Players?

    He wouldn't have fitted in with "the group" and didn't have "the values" we are looking for in a signing!🙄 Or some other pearlers we get treated to by Flitcroft and the manager in announcements and press conferences.

    I'm not sure what "values" are present in a squad that's got us to 23rd in the league but there we are?

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  3. 1 hour ago, Walka003 said:

    Brunos side were better. The worst in my 25+ years of watching vale was the Brown/Aspins team of 17/18 and 18/19. The football was horrific and the players were worse than what we have now.

    Wikipedia suggests that the biggest win we had in 17/18 was 4-0 vs Luton. How times change eh?

    Only good thing to come out of those two seasons was David Worrall signing for us.

    Askeys second season was garbage aswell untill the messiah got the managers job.

    The Aspin side was a strange one as for 2 games they looked "world beaters"(for 4th tier level) against Coventry and Luton which I think put us within a couple of wins of the playoffs and had us dreaming of a better 2nd half of the season then we went on a 14 game run without a win!!  Whitfield's goal against Chesterfield "metophorically" saved us and basically sent them down but at 1-1 it was touch and go in that game. 

    You're right though it's the only side where I've felt we could lose our league status(so could easily described as the worst), when Pugh got sent off in that game I genuinely feared the worst.  For some reason I just think the 07-09 teams had some worse outright shockers(player and performance wise), maybe it's because the anger in V2001 was starting to build at the time and I remember it more vividly as I was involved with the first lot of protesting 2 or 3 years later.

    That said as bad as Sinnott and Glover's team was 08/09 I never actually felt they'd go out of the league as I think Chester were dreadful and Luton had that ridiculous point deduction that meant staying up was nigh on impossible

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  4. I think Spunkers has hit the nail on the head re this team,  I too have seen worse on ability but this bunch are just gutless and as a result some lack the brains to do the basics.

    I keep mentioning the Bury game 2008 as that season and the year before when we were relegated stick in my mind as being about the worst I've seen on ability.

    The side that day:

    Anyon, Davidson, McCrory, Stockley, L.Collins, Owen, Richman, MacKenzie, Richards, Dodds, Glover (McCombe and Griffith were on the bench as well). 

    I'd say 5 or 6 of them went on to have some better times with Vale and are ultimately remembered as decent players for us(Collins(RIP), Owen, Dodds and Richards) and 3 I think were part of Micky Adams' promotion side a few years later(Dodds, McCombe and Griffith from memory)

    The back end of Foyle's tenure, Sinnott and Glover were some grim times, the Macc league game and Chasetown debacle spring to mind as Sinnott's shockers.   But as I said in the previous post even the remnants of that side had their moments, I remember the away days at Shrewsbury(2-1 with Richards last minute winner!), Huddersfield(FA Cup comeback) and Chester there was evidently some effort there as bad as they were in other games.

     

       
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
     
           
           
           
           
           
  5. I wonder if the club are using the survey they sent out after the Shrewsbury game to gage opinion at all? Although from the title it was supposed to be more related to matchday experience/facilities I gave my thoughts on the shambles of a team/recruitment process this season as well!

    Or is that a regular thing now after each home game? I'd missed a couple of home games after Pompey due to disallusion and a holiday so not had one before?

  6. Worst I've seen at this level(3rd tier) and for effort and commitment generally I'd say, I've been going 30 years or so.

    Worst on ability I've seen was the Glover team that turned out at Bury in league two, 3 down in 20 mins.

    Even that side had its moments throughout the season though, won at Shrewsbury and Huddersfield miraculously in the cup with Marc Richards and Louis Dodds providing some magic at times. I have a feeling at least 1 of them was injured that day at Bury though?🤔

     

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  7. You'd say only Garrity and Chislett would likely be of massive interest to any club when we go down as they've scored 20 or so goals between them from midfield.  I couldn't blame them moving on tbh they've been 2 of the better players in a god awful side.  That would leave a midfield rebuild as well as everywhere else.  Ojo should be more than decent in league two but he's looked lazy and disinterested 1) since returning from injury and 2) since Crosby got the boot.  Before xmas he looked a very good player with Arblaster and Devine around him but does he want to be here anymore?  I'd like to think Walters will be with us, but appears to be a bit of contract rebel and perhaps as a result isn't getting a look in like the some of the other academy lads who've had more game time since that Wrexham game in the EFL Trophy.

    Smith would personally be my first name on the released list, proved how dreadful a defender he's become costing us goals in the last 2 (key) home games, he seems more interested in shithousing that actually trying to defend? Get back to basics Nathan or sod off as you were(and could be again) a half decent league two level defender when you put your mind to it!

    The academy lads aside, the rest I'm generally not fussed over, you'd imagine one or 2(Debrah, Iacoviti defence wise) could/should be at least half competent in league two and Debrah probably has a couple of years to run on his deal anyway. 

    Jones and Loft ought to be paid up, dreadful footballers the pair of them and I'd honestly have Grant not far behind as well, coupled with his poor injury record!  Sang looks the archetypal utility player who is average to poor in 2 or 3 positions but will probably become a lower league journeyman throughout his career, useful as a squad player maybe?

    Big rebuild certainly needed as the rot has clearly set in with a losing culture at the club!

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  8. Pretty much last chance saloon/💩 or bust Saturday, whatever you want to call it.  If we can somehow scramble a win it gives us a glimmer of hope.

    Lets be honest can you really see it though, we can't attack or defend our way out of a wet paper bag, relegation is all but deserved when you add everything together, a truly shocking season as alluded to above.

    It's the hope that kills you tbh!

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  9. The point I'm making though is how do you rank the teams in Division 3 N & S as above or below each other?🤔  So technically is it not 27th out of 66 in 1931(although there were 88 league clubs).  Whereas our 8th place finish in 1996/97 was 28/92.

    Like I say it's splitting hairs in one sense as they were very different eras each with their own pros and cons(I don't think all the teams were pro. in the 30s as one example, maybe Division 1 but after that?).  It's also difficult to know what the strength of the Vale team was in the late 20s/early 30s compared to those of the 50s and 90s. 

  10. 34 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

    I’d play Garrity up top as the other option. Even Massey would do a better job and at least run down the channels and stretch sides. Loft shouldn’t play again 

    I tend to agree but really that just shows how poor we are.  Like comparing 1 level of crapness(is that a word!😁) with another, as in one system you have Loft who is rubbish and in the other you have players out of position and risk them having a poor game as a result(although at least they might try). 

    For me if Massey plays it has to be as a out and out right winger(where he's had his better games) he's poor anywhere else. Dreadful as a RB/WB and can't finish well enough as an out and out forward.

    So it's swings and roundabouts for me, in the absence of anything else do we play Loft up front and at least have the likes of Garrity, Chislett, Massey(et al) in their better positions and they might have a good game or ditch Loft and play the others out of position?  Geez what a choice/mess!🫣

  11. 49 minutes ago, Wrex said:

    Actually Frank Huntbach was the chairman in 1931 when we had our highest league finish. Bell also made our biggest ever transfer fee by selling Ainsworth behind Rudge's back but hurrah for Bell and his biscuit tin I guess

    Were there not only 3 divisions(or at least levels to the league system) in 1931 though and less 'league' clubs(2 third divisions that were the same level north and south)? I know it's splitting hairs and is historically our highest league finish but I always thinks it's difficult to compare the 2 eras(i.e1920s/30s to the 1990s) as there are a lot of variables.

     

  12. Aside from discussing Loft's ability(or lack of) and whilst I agree with some of what Rob has said in the piece on the front page re mental health, one issue is who else do we stick upfront as an out and out striker with the options we have? Surely you need a least 1 fairly tall bloke up there?

    You take Loft out of the firing line and that leaves us a 17 year old lad in Dipepa and Wilson who is injury prone and playing as a lone striker isn't really his game.  That leaves us with the make do and mend option of shoehorning Garrity or Chislett in there, some would probably argue they'd be better on one leg than Loft but in all seriousness is that really the point?

    Criminal what a mess we've been left in from that point of view of the recruitment and makes the January window even more shameful from Flitcroft and his recruitment team!  I'm left shaking my head whenever I think of it, there truly was no excuse not to at least get 1 striker in(even a young lad on loan ala Thomas could have taken some of the weight of games) but we got nowt!

    Short of signing a free agent with some level of fitness(I saw unofficial vale on twitter linking us with an Icelandic chap, don't know if there's owt in that?) we're utterly doomed it would seem!😞

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  13. The comments about Jones are laughable, just shows how "stats" can't paint a completely different picture to reality.  Lies, lies and damn lies!

    One of the worst footballers on ability I've seen at Vale in 30 odd years as a fan(at least for league one level and he wasn't great in league two)!  Flitcroft ought to be severely reprimanded for ratifying a 2 year extension when his injury/absence record is a joke as well. 

    Sadly Loft is another, I've seen some poor strikers at VP in my time but he makes Reggie Cicilia look like Drogba!

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  14. I guess a lot will depend what division we are in, if we go down(or perhaps that should be when on current form!😞) . i've not given up hope but admittedly it looks grim.  The decisions to give Loft a 2.5 year deal and Jones 2 years(injury record alone, whatever the debate on his ability) were shocking beyond belief. 

    I'm all for giving players a chance and do think Vale fans have to have a scapegoat at times.  (Massey and previously Benning before he left have fallen into that category to varying degress, and going back 15 odd years people booed Constantine when he was half decent!?)I'll never barrack him when playing but Loft truly is one of the poorest footballers I've ever seen and to think we paid around 75k for him!😱  I'd hope to move him on but who would honestly take such a poor standard of player, even NL clubs would probably laugh!  As an aside I didn't particularly rate Pope the season before his 33 goals which was one of the biggest transformations in a player I've seen but even he offered more than Loft(I think he got 4 or 5 goals)!

    We may just have to hope he can act as some sort of foil for a.n.other forward we bring in as a hold up man even if he managed 5 goals in league two.  Then again I say another forward but based on Flitcroft's record we could be waiting years before we ever sign (a decent) one!🙄

    I honestly think we'd have Bob hope of keeping both Garrity and Chislett if we went down, maybe 1 at a push but both have proved they can score goals from midfield in league one, I suppose at least we'd get fees if we sold either/both?  One plus is the young academy lads will have had some experience in League One so you'd hope they could put that to use in the lower level of league two to make some impact.

    The attack and defence(to a slightly lesser degree, what are Debrah and Iacovitti's contract situs, they should be decent enough in league two?) would need a hell of an overhaul whatever division we are in!

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  15. Benning's best spell was the last 10-12 games of the promotion season, as mentioned had a superb game at Wembley and scored the penalty that set up for Swindon's player to blaze over and miss for the game in the semi. 

    He was ordinary before that and much of last season albeit at a higher level but pleased he's done well for Shrewsbury, he tried hard most of the time and seems a decent bloke.

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  16. Just now, Vtid said:

    Think he pretty well with Derby in what was a tough ask him keep them up. Struggled everywhere else he’s been but Birmingham isn’t a easy job either as it’s proved in recent years. Can see Rooney being a top manager one day 

    I don't know he just doesn't come over as man management material to me at all.

    But that's true, his biggest mistake was leaving Derby, should have stayed and made a go of it in league one. 

    Sadly a lot of 'name' managers seem to think anything below the championship is beneath them which is wrong.

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  17. Exactly look at Rooney, excellent player, arguably one of the best of his generation in this country. But management wise his early efforts would suggest he's out of his depth.

    There should be a role for him as a coach somewhere you'd think, particularly with strikers but as a manager I'll be honest I just couldn't take his face or voice seriously if I was working under him.

  18. 9 hours ago, Warren said:

    Kennedy has played for and coached at top clubs. Our last manager can't claim that and nor could Clarke really. A bit unfair as he has gained promotions.

    Having played for some good clubs sometimes then coaching at them follows on when a player comes to around 'retirement' age i.e mid 30s(if that's what they want) so I'd say opportunities to get his foot in the door with coaching/managing would have been greater for Kennedy.  Clarke wasn't a particularly great player in the grander scheme of things(played all his career in the 3rd and 4th tiers), that's not a criticism but possibly means he's had to work harder to work his way up more as a coach/manager as he won't necessarily have the contacts from his playing days.  In fact I think his first managerial role was Salisbury who were Southern League/NLS standard.

    That's not to say Kennedy hasn't worked hard but he probably had a grounding at clubs who employ a dozen coaches or more and opportunities becoming available in the revolving door of football management/coaching if you apply for enough lower league jobs and put you've worked at a big club on your CV I'd imagine eventually one may come knocking?  Whereas Clarke was in non league management before working for Bristol Rovers, Walsall and ourselves who employ half that number of people in the coaching set up.  If he'd failed at Salisbury that may have been game over for him in terms of any sort of professional management career.

    Of course both may end up at the same level of management and facing each other on Saturday(I hope not personally as I'd prefer DM but we'll see), but I guess it just shows the 2 ends of the scale in some ways.

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  19. Bowyer does sound a boring sod from some of his interviews and as the poster said above evidently came over the same on commentary, I guess he can't help his voice/accent though😁.  That said decent record by enlarge.  Couple of promotions at Blackpool and Dundee(albeit it the one in Scotland with a side you'd fancy to be there or thereabouts in their 2nd tier, still got to be achieved though).  Harshly fired at Salford like 1 or 2 others after a half decent season as well before that.  We could do worse as I said yesterday.

    Bonner similarly, did very well at Cambridge. Appears to have spent most of career in the Cambridge, Essex, East Anglia region though, it would surprise me from that point of view if he came to Vale, particularly if he has a family, but football can be a nomadic career I guess so who knows

    Kennedy and Adams would undoubtedly fall into the underwhelming category but most managers will have their pros and cons if you go on previous endeavours/records, as long as they aren't truly awful records they are going to get a job somewhere eventually you'd imagine. It maybe us?  Like most I wouldn't be enamoured but I'd give them a chance.

    Moore would certainly be the marquee appointment of those mentioned although his record does come across to me as a tad overrated perhaps? Again pros and cons we can all see I guess.

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  20. Bowyer is an interesting one, record is pretty solid aside from Bradford(he's not the only one to have failed there which probably tells you something).

    Not sure why he left Dundee after getting them promoted without looking into it?

    We could do a lot worse.

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  21. 1 hour ago, Tamworth said:

    No but it demonstrates that our criticism of Flitcroft for rank incompetence in this regard is justified... That's the issue.

    I know I'm not defending him, just making the point that any manager who works under a DOF may not have a lot of say in who is actually signed. Its the managers job to pick the team, man manage and chose tactics formation.

    I don't like what Flitcroft has done and would rather he left but we can't just sack him for not giving the manager a say in who is signed as that's probably his job.

    It's more a case of the quality of player Flitcroft has or hasn't brought in that he should be brought to task on.

  22. On 05/02/2024 at 19:53, ollyandpatch said:

    Take this with a pinch of salt but I spoke with an ex director from the early 80s today who claims that Crosby had almost no input in any of our signings. Flickcroft said who he wanted and Kevin Shanahan sorted the finance. !

    Whilst there are plenty of things to bash Flitcroft with, that's not unusual in a DOF set up generally. 

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