Shropshire_Valiant

I'd also guess at least one of Garrity and Chislett will be sold as 10+ goals in a poor side from midfield won't be sniffed at by some.

Agree with most of that. Crimes that list of 9 is concerning! I'd honestly hope to not see a good 6 of those in a Vale shirt again after this season but that's probably asking too much? I'd say pay off or move on Sang, Grant, Lowe and Jones for starters. Age probably saves Debrah as he could improve? I think there's something there with him but at times he looks like Bambi on ice as well. Problem is that also leaves Smith and Yak, in terms of revamping a failing defence is that too many to give us any great scope for change?🤔 I'm not a great fan of Smith but he is experienced and was half decent in League Two in our promotion season. That leaves Ojo who on ability should be decent in league two(but has looked largely disinterested since Crosby and is probably one of our higher earners) and the much maligned Lofty lad who we are probably going to have to persevere with even if it's only a back up striker if that area of the team can also have a revamp!

I think Chesterfield will be dangerous they've been too good for the NL this season(also Cook's a good manager and I think they have a bit of coin behind them?) otherwise you wouldn't think any of those who look like being involved with the playoffs to be any particular great shakes in League Two? Perhaps aside from a bit of momentum that normally comes from a confident promoted side. I'd love to see Gateshead or Halifax come up as I've never been to either ground(or seen Vale play either for that matter) but the London clubs Barnet, Bromley look the form sides in there. Altrincham for the size of club have had a cracking season. A nice easy one on the tram from Manchester if they made it, although I suspect their away allocation won't be particularly big having been to Moss Road before for a friendly. Shouldn't forget Solihull either, that would be another new ground/team. Can't say I've ever looked at what their ground is like for the potential of league football.

Some very short memories on this thread and the other Moore Out one. Comments like Crosby would have kept us up and we wouldn't have thrown leads away?🙃🤔🤪 Crosby was attricious and had better players at his disposal, that's not to defend Moore either but we can't keep sacking managers, how about the useless players(in the most part) accept some responsibility or we actually give Moore the chance to build a squad next season? Fine if he's struggling after 10-12 games of next season or we lose the first 6 playing crap start sharpening you shovels and pitchforks but come on? You can't polish a <ovf censored>! This is probably the worst Vale side at 3rd tier level I've had the misfortune to watch in 30 odd years and could top the Sinnott/Glover side if allowed to continue into next season! Absolving the youth lads of any blame there's literally about 3 I'd keep the rest have proved one way or another they're either useless or not up for the fight! Without saying/typing it again I'm somewhere on the same page as Spunkers 2 posts!

Well I don't want to see most of them in a Vale shirt beyond this season! Sod them off!

A very welcome if not slightly surprising result last night. It certainly doesn't make tonight a free hit as a bad defeat could do significant damage to the GD but for the first time in a while our destiny is totally back in our own hands(at least until after tonights 90 minutes). Everything crossed for an unlikely win tonight to keep it that way eh😜 That said it does now mean that IF we can win the 3 home games it would leave Burton needing to win 3 from 4 and Cheltenham 4 from 5(or win 3 draw 2) to better us. Still a long and I'd imagine twisty way to go yet though but we have hope which was fading with every passing day 2 or 3 weeks ago!

Isn't it lose by more than 1 goal to drop into the bottom 4? Burton have scored 33 to our 38 if the GD is equal! Or is the 2nd separator something else?

Wycombe Saturday is probably one they will target as well(not much to play for). I know a number of Shrews fans who still think they are in trouble or at least squeeky bum. Fail to win Saturday and they could be right with Bolton and Charlton away to follow there's the potential they could be dragged right into the fertiliser.

Some good points and generally I agree. I think the reliance on loans has come back to bite us(2nd half of the season). Whilst one of the things I applaud Flitcroft for was perhaps brokering those relationships with 'big clubs', and they are useful to have you should never rely on loanees as your best players. They should be a bonus to your permanent players. OK in Arblaster and Devine they became 2 of our best players which is great, but when they inevitably leave(as they are both Championship standard players and above possibly even at 18-20 yo) it shouldn't rip the heart out of the team and leave you with a poor and unbalanced squad. Lets be honest we weren't a brilliant side with them both playing 90% of the time. Weir and Gore(although we've not seen him really) were never going to hit those standards. That's no slight on either of them or Vale in the loan market but it's shows how sadly lacking the club has been in the permanent transfer market since we've been in league one.

Don't Bristol go to Cheltenham as well in the next 3? My only hope from that one is it's a local derby to some extent and Bristol you'd imagine will be taking 1000+ fans? You would hope they'd make some effort for them to appease their bad run a bit(even if they are safe).

Agree 0 points from those 2(Shrewsbury & Cheltenham), 1 from Fleetwood and splitting the points with Carlisle and Burton tells you all you need to know if we do go that's basically why. I think win the 3 home games and we have a fair to middling chance imho. The annoying thing is a couple of (decent)signings in January and we'd have probably been comfortable (around where Bristol Rovers/Wycombe/Wigan are in the table). Can anyone honestly say that would have been too much to ask or punching above our weight for Vale budget and size of club wise? Personnally I don't think so!

Shrewsbury's 2 wins over us are basically what's keeping them out of the brown stuff(obviously they've won a few other games) but if we hadn't been so darned poor at home and trying to walk it in at their place even 1 win out of the 2 or at least a point they'd have been right in it with us. Still it is what it is, sadly(for us at least) I think they'll scramble the 1 win or couple of points they need to stay up, as bad a run in as it looks.

Agree I've said for a while to lose twice to Shrewsbury and Cheltenham and only get 1 point off Fleetwood we basically deserve to go down. 46 games won't lie as they say. I know Shrewsbury fans who are surprised they aren't down there with us as they think they are rubbish, you could say their 2 wins over us are what's going to keep them out of any last minute dog fight.

Why do you need to know? What's done is done. A very sad situation allround and in another time or place he may still have been our manager but it is what it is! The reason I mentioned it is because I see people blaming the roots of Vale's current plight on sacking him. All I'm saying is I can see why they made the decision, it's what's happened(or hasn't in terms of signings!) since that is more to blame imho.

I'm not gutted for the owners if we go down, it's a harsh lesson in how not to run a football club(on the pitch). The warning signs were there from the 2nd half of last season and weren't heeded and more poor decisions were made. This coupled with not listening to the supporters until it's too late I don't have too much sympathy, it's 75% at least self inflicted. Yes they've done a lot of great work at the club on a crumbling infrastructure(off the pitch) but the 2 facets need to run side by side. I don't blame getting rid of Clarke(that's an unfortunate one where a number of things have conspired against him and the club but sadly at the time I think he had to go, if what I've heard is true). However we then appoint a manager with links to a squad/system that had started to struggle/fail already and coupled with our dum cluck DOF the rest we all know! As others have said it's the hope that kills you, we still have a chance but like Darren on the previous page I'll be honest I can't wait until it's over and relegation most likely confirmed. We can do all the conotations to death I'd be surprised if we get above 2 sides, Burton maybe but I think Cheltenham will pip us to it(oh the irony). Otherwise unless there is an almighty collapse and/or point deductions for 1 of Shrewsbury, Cambridge or Reading I think we are roundly buggered!

Haven't read a lot of the thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything, I think the fact we have staff who were "supporting" Flitcroft I assume with the "donkey work" on stats/scouting etc on potential signings can still prove useful? Can they not report to Moore with their findings then he makes the overall decision on whether we try and sign said player? Then when it comes to thrashing out the financials if it's more complicated obviously someone higher up the chain in the club Carol/Kevin whoever would have to be involved in discussions. Obviously something somewhere in the "process" has been going wrong under Flitcroft so clearly that needs ironing out by the club moving forward!

He wouldn't have fitted in with "the group" and didn't have "the values" we are looking for in a signing!🙄 Or some other pearlers we get treated to by Flitcroft and the manager in announcements and press conferences. I'm not sure what "values" are present in a squad that's got us to 23rd in the league but there we are?

The Aspin side was a strange one as for 2 games they looked "world beaters"(for 4th tier level) against Coventry and Luton which I think put us within a couple of wins of the playoffs and had us dreaming of a better 2nd half of the season then we went on a 14 game run without a win!! Whitfield's goal against Chesterfield "metophorically" saved us and basically sent them down but at 1-1 it was touch and go in that game. You're right though it's the only side where I've felt we could lose our league status(so could easily described as the worst), when Pugh got sent off in that game I genuinely feared the worst. For some reason I just think the 07-09 teams had some worse outright shockers(player and performance wise), maybe it's because the anger in V2001 was starting to build at the time and I remember it more vividly as I was involved with the first lot of protesting 2 or 3 years later. That said as bad as Sinnott and Glover's team was 08/09 I never actually felt they'd go out of the league as I think Chester were dreadful and Luton had that ridiculous point deduction that meant staying up was nigh on impossible

I think Spunkers has hit the nail on the head re this team, I too have seen worse on ability but this bunch are just gutless and as a result some lack the brains to do the basics. I keep mentioning the Bury game 2008 as that season and the year before when we were relegated stick in my mind as being about the worst I've seen on ability. The side that day: Anyon, Davidson, McCrory, Stockley, L.Collins, Owen, Richman, MacKenzie, Richards, Dodds, Glover (McCombe and Griffith were on the bench as well). I'd say 5 or 6 of them went on to have some better times with Vale and are ultimately remembered as decent players for us(Collins(RIP), Owen, Dodds and Richards) and 3 I think were part of Micky Adams' promotion side a few years later(Dodds, McCombe and Griffith from memory) The back end of Foyle's tenure, Sinnott and Glover were some grim times, the Macc league game and Chasetown debacle spring to mind as Sinnott's shockers. But as I said in the previous post even the remnants of that side had their moments, I remember the away days at Shrewsbury(2-1 with Richards last minute winner!), Huddersfield(FA Cup comeback) and Chester there was evidently some effort there as bad as they were in other games.

I wonder if the club are using the survey they sent out after the Shrewsbury game to gage opinion at all? Although from the title it was supposed to be more related to matchday experience/facilities I gave my thoughts on the shambles of a team/recruitment process this season as well! Or is that a regular thing now after each home game? I'd missed a couple of home games after Pompey due to disallusion and a holiday so not had one before?

Worst I've seen at this level(3rd tier) and for effort and commitment generally I'd say, I've been going 30 years or so. Worst on ability I've seen was the Glover team that turned out at Bury in league two, 3 down in 20 mins. Even that side had its moments throughout the season though, won at Shrewsbury and Huddersfield miraculously in the cup with Marc Richards and Louis Dodds providing some magic at times. I have a feeling at least 1 of them was injured that day at Bury though?🤔

You'd say only Garrity and Chislett would likely be of massive interest to any club when we go down as they've scored 20 or so goals between them from midfield. I couldn't blame them moving on tbh they've been 2 of the better players in a god awful side. That would leave a midfield rebuild as well as everywhere else. Ojo should be more than decent in league two but he's looked lazy and disinterested 1) since returning from injury and 2) since Crosby got the boot. Before xmas he looked a very good player with Arblaster and Devine around him but does he want to be here anymore? I'd like to think Walters will be with us, but appears to be a bit of contract rebel and perhaps as a result isn't getting a look in like the some of the other academy lads who've had more game time since that Wrexham game in the EFL Trophy. Smith would personally be my first name on the released list, proved how dreadful a defender he's become costing us goals in the last 2 (key) home games, he seems more interested in shithousing that actually trying to defend? Get back to basics Nathan or sod off as you were(and could be again) a half decent league two level defender when you put your mind to it! The academy lads aside, the rest I'm generally not fussed over, you'd imagine one or 2(Debrah, Iacoviti defence wise) could/should be at least half competent in league two and Debrah probably has a couple of years to run on his deal anyway. Jones and Loft ought to be paid up, dreadful footballers the pair of them and I'd honestly have Grant not far behind as well, coupled with his poor injury record! Sang looks the archetypal utility player who is average to poor in 2 or 3 positions but will probably become a lower league journeyman throughout his career, useful as a squad player maybe? Big rebuild certainly needed as the rot has clearly set in with a losing culture at the club!

Pretty much last chance saloon/💩 or bust Saturday, whatever you want to call it. If we can somehow scramble a win it gives us a glimmer of hope. Lets be honest can you really see it though, we can't attack or defend our way out of a wet paper bag, relegation is all but deserved when you add everything together, a truly shocking season as alluded to above. It's the hope that kills you tbh!

The point I'm making though is how do you rank the teams in Division 3 N & S as above or below each other?🤔 So technically is it not 27th out of 66 in 1931(although there were 88 league clubs). Whereas our 8th place finish in 1996/97 was 28/92. Like I say it's splitting hairs in one sense as they were very different eras each with their own pros and cons(I don't think all the teams were pro. in the 30s as one example, maybe Division 1 but after that?). It's also difficult to know what the strength of the Vale team was in the late 20s/early 30s compared to those of the 50s and 90s.

I tend to agree but really that just shows how poor we are. Like comparing 1 level of crapness(is that a word!😁) with another, as in one system you have Loft who is rubbish and in the other you have players out of position and risk them having a poor game as a result(although at least they might try). For me if Massey plays it has to be as a out and out right winger(where he's had his better games) he's poor anywhere else. Dreadful as a RB/WB and can't finish well enough as an out and out forward. So it's swings and roundabouts for me, in the absence of anything else do we play Loft up front and at least have the likes of Garrity, Chislett, Massey(et al) in their better positions and they might have a good game or ditch Loft and play the others out of position? Geez what a choice/mess!🫣